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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 17, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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Andy, when you did that climb, had the stick clip disappeared? For a long time, there was a handy tree branch there, with which to clip the first bolt. As hard as anything on the rest of the route.
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MH2
climber
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Mar 17, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
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Stick clip? Tree? There was a shrub, once upon a time. It's gone. Robert started down and right of what the photo shows. I tried to warn him. I think his faulty memory got him in trouble, but skill and necessity got him to the bolt.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Mar 17, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
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O.k., back to rock climbing tales of long ago.
This is steered in the direction of all the young guns, with their questions regarding new routing etc..
Even though our local cliffs often require scrubbing prior to climbing, you guys can still work together, or separately, and attain the ground-up experience.
The sunny climbing picture that was shown here this morning got me thinking about a route we put up as it was just around the corner.
Peder and I were hiking around the bluffs one day and spotted this potential beauty. Having received some flack from the powers that be, or were, about rapping down to scrub some of our (then) recent routes, Peder immediately stated he was going to return on his own and scrub that line clean.....for me.
What a guy.
He did a great job; by himself.
A week later we returned and I fired that nice little pitch first try. One bolt, a few r.p.s, several cams... it was Primo.
We also had a genuine experience on a beautiful arete, out to the right of apron strings. Clean as a whistle due to it's location, we never had to rap or scrub that climb. It did take several excursions to establish, as it was a tough nugget. That climb is two pitches, ending at the top of the Flake, and the belay at the end of the first pitch is an A-1 flake/horn that you sling. Old style; trying to do the least amount of impact.
That's how it was laid out in "Advanced Rockcraft" by Robbins.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 17, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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MH2 that's the one. One of the more striking, lesser climbed 5.10 lines in the bluffs IMO. On the onsight i started down & right, exciting for sure. Second time i started in the easy corner to the right & hand traversed a rail out towards the arete which culminated in a sketchy unprotected mantle onto a 6inch ledge which when you stand up from the bolt is right there. Maybe technically easier but committing. 3rd time there i just walked to the top to take photo's of my friends. Great little pitch either way.
Hamish F, cool stories & i love the teamwork you guys implemented to maintain that pure experience. What pitch are you talking about in the bluffs? I am thinking you are talking about Sunday whites by apron strings, correct me if i'm wrong, thanks!
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pazzo
climber
Vancouver BC
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Mar 17, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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Leading the crux pitch of Cerberus. Kinley Aitken and Senja Palonen can be seen to our left on Tantalus Wall.
Pic by MH2
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MH2
climber
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Mar 17, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
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Sunday whites is primo.
Please provide photo and story.
Welcome to pazzo. He's got some stories, too.
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MH2
climber
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Mar 17, 2012 - 07:20pm PT
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its really hard to handle a camera when your quivering your way up a blank 75 degree arete!
That's the story, then. Doesn't have to be long. Thanks. Hamish had a good one, too.
I once saw climbers on Sunday Whites.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Mar 17, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
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Yup; camera, hilti, same basic problem.
I'm trying to figure out how to tell that story without it sounding just like the other ones.
Best thing about that route was the thank-god ledge about 50' up the arete. You could see that thing from the Pulp Mill. Eddie could've bivied on that little ledge.
Those were really hard fought bolts, leaning off the right hand wrapped around the arete, trying hard not to barndoor off into oblivion. I took a fall or two when my hooks ripped out the useless-looking edges/flakes. Eventually I was stumped so I stood on a bolt, or bat-hole, to drill a bolt. That was the only time I ever had to resort to that technique. Sketchy behavoir but that ledge was so far away and a fall would have definitely sent one over the edge. Then there would be an issue with the rope cutting on the edge. We justified our actions under the safety heading and the route still maintained an adventurous feeling.
Again, we were convinced we had a classic. Twenty years later I suppose it can't measure up to the immaculate second pitch of Apron Strings.
Oh well, Bruce liked it. I took some good photos of the Bear leading it but, of course, he has those; along with a bucket of other good pics.
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TheSoloClimber
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Mar 17, 2012 - 11:35pm PT
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along with a bucket of other good pics.
He stores quite a few things in these buckets, eh? Boat rope from the Grand, pictures..... what else has he got hidden? ;)
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Mar 17, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
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To answer your earlier question, Ryan, that bluff route is called Senate Seat.
It got shortened from it's original "Greg Scores a Senate Seat" in celebration of G.F. landing his buyer job at the co-op. It's over in Ronin's Corner, kinda high up on one of those cliffs. Another classic (in our own minds).
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 17, 2012 - 11:54pm PT
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The English had something of a tradition of partners gardening each other's pitches, so preserving as much of the on sight experience as was possible. Not sure how that worked on routes of two or more pitches - were you blindfolded when rappelling the pitches you would eventually lead?
And here are a few more photos from the Adamants, from trips in 1972, 1996, and 1999.
The latter two are of Mount Austerity, with its north ridge on the right. I've climbed the NW face twice. The bump just to Austerity's right is the Ironman - not sure as to the origins of the names. To get down from Austerity, you scramble and rappel down the west ridge to a saddle with the Ironman, up and over it, then one long rappel back to the glacier.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 17, 2012 - 11:59pm PT
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And some photos from climbing Austerity itself.
It's about six pitches, maybe 45 - 50 degrees, with the last pitch in the exit gully, as you can see, quite a bit steeper. Maybe 70 degrees?
This is looking down the exit gully from the ridge, from which it's a five minute scramble to the top.
So when we went there in 1972, we had two ropes, IIR one 3/8" x 150', the other 1/4" x 300'. All goldline. We used one single, the other double. For some of the things we did, including this, we climbed in one rope, with the leader (Leif) at the sharp end of the 3/8", Henry in the middle, and Ric and I at the lower end of the doubled 1/4", a few m apart.
Patience, forsooth! I'm setting the scene.
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Mar 18, 2012 - 01:12am PT
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I'm gonna' have to hit you up for some beta Anders, I'm heading into the Adamants in July for my first time.
Ok, back to route development, bolts, posturing and the like. Of the few routes I've dug out of the rainforest, most have been of the easy to medium difficulty level by today's standards. That being said, I definitely wanted them to be popular, because otherwise things just grow over here.
While I understand the nobility of bolting on lead and establishing routes ground-up, I don't necessarily believe it produces the best product in the long term. I have done some ground-up route development. It makes for some of the fondest and most vivid of my climbing memories. However, I often go back and add bolts or even change the line when the real grunt work of cleaning happens.
For example: The Ultimate Everything was climbed ground-up in one day except for the last two pitches with no bolts on its FA. Pitch 1-3, 5-7, and 11-12 of Millennium Falcon were established on lead with no previewing (p4, 8-10, and 13 were pre-cleaned and bolted later) The current line of Peasant's Route was climbed ground up in all it's bushy glory with only a single hand-drilled bolt at the top anchor to allow retreat. Pitch 1-3 of Polaris was done ground up just to discover if we could get to the obvious line of weakness above.
When I'm in a solid head-space, I love going for it from the ground. Unfortunately around here, that's rarely possible due to the amount of vegetation. Either that, or the route will in no way resemble what you originally climbed once it is denuded of its green blanket. Most of the clean lines that are sub-5.12 were picked over years ago. (Low hanging fruit as Tami called it).
As I mentioned before, I'm going for maximum user-friendliness of my routes. Sure, I may have had a grand adventure scaring myself shitless burrowing through the shrubbery, or running it out 60' above a tied-off knifeblade, but does anyone else think that's going to get repeated, let alone be popular? Why should I hold anyone to the standard of my FA if I don't want to? My "adventure and exploration" days have acquired a bit of a reputation among my partners. Most simply don't return my phone calls when my message includes anything to the effect of "go check out... or, an interesting looking line...."
After the line is (re)discovered, and deemed to be worth the effort of uncovering it, then the challenge is ensuring it will get enough traffic to keep it appealing. This to me means relatively safe protection, decent belay stances where possible, and sometimes, the ability to rap the route without leaving most of your rack behind in the unlikely event that it starts raining.
The number of bolted belay stations on The Ultimate Everything in particular has garnered criticism over the years. There are 8 of 10 stations bolted. The other two are large trees with permanent rope/rap ring anchors. The route is almost entirely 5.8-5.9, so I tried to design it for a 5.9 leader, not a 5.11 leader. Sure you could add about 5 more anchors as trees instead of bolts, but they would have been in poorer spots, created erosion around the bases of those trees, and in my opinion detracted from the overall experience of the route. If you'd rather use the trees, go right ahead. The stations simply allow for relatively straightforward retreat, and a good line-of-sight to your partner. Most of the grumbling has come from climbers significantly above the 5.9 skill level. Coincidence?
As always, I'm open to any and all comments, criticisms, accolades, free booze, recommendations, threats of bodily harm, etc, etc, regarding the routes I've tried to bring to the community. In fact, why don't we do it over a few pitches of climbing? There's this line I've been wanting to have a closer look at....
Kris
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Mar 18, 2012 - 01:28am PT
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BK That's a great video of the Koots. Thanks. I think that we may have more than our share of the 'good stuff'.
Anders was being either coy or modest when he mentioned the NW face of Austerity, as he was in the FA party. Ooooooops, did I spoil the story?
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Mar 18, 2012 - 11:17am PT
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O.K., fair enough. I can learn and grow to accept there are different pursuits being played out on the beautiful cliffs of Squamish.
My scrubbing days may have added up to ten, give or take. Kris must be into the hundreds by now, and has obviously delivered way more enjoyable days of climbing to the masses than I ever did.
I was a lot more stubborn and probably more consumed with my own experience. I never gave much thought to creating the ultimate "product" for all the climbers that would follow. I assumed if I could drill the bolt, others could clip it, and chances were it was going to be in the perfect spot. It never would have dawned on me to return to a route and add more bolts.
My attitude may have been a little more on the "if you can't stand the heat, stay outta the kitchen" jingle. I always thought that was one of the endearing qualities of climbing; not every route had to be for every climber.
I would imagine that on any given sunny summer day, there are more people climbing one of Kris's routes than all of the ones I had a hand in creating put together. We were always convinced we'd put up a classic, but as the decades pass by, maybe we were exaggerating. Perhaps in the future; the best part of it is these routes will last forever.
Kris deserves an enormous amount of thanks for all of his work unearthing quality multi-pitch routes for everyone.
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Mar 18, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
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Thanks for the kind words Hamish. If I was here fifteen years earlier as part of your generation of new routers, my approach to development may have been much closer to yours and Peder's. (if I could climb that hard!)Even to me, thinking of a route as a "product" for the masses leaves a bit of a sour taste. But it is a fact. There is a finite resource around here for development. If the route will forever be held to the standard of the first ascentionist's vision for it, then I choose for most of my routes to get traffic.
If we lived in an area with more rock, or less aggressive vegetation growth, I would probably put up more routes in the style that I first climb them. I have the utmost respect for the routes you guys and gals stuck your necks out on before I even knew what rock climbing was. After living here for fourteen years, I'm still trying to get the cahones to try some of the pitches you established. They will always be a testament to the tenacity of climbers like you guys.
I feel there's room for various development styles within every climbing area. Sure, it usually feels like an there's an overall theme to someplace like the Valley, vs Smith Rock, vs Indian Creek, but within that, varying styles were employed. If future generations view my contributions as a bit cushy compared to other routes, that's okay. If we all wanted the exact same thing or experience, there would be only a few very crowded routes.
Come on sunshine! I wanna' go climbing!!!!
K
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Mar 18, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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Maybe I could make my climbing stories more exciting by adding a few "forsooths" here and there.
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MH2
climber
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Mar 18, 2012 - 02:38pm PT
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It's good that Squamish can handle a variety of new-routing styles. Today, people who may have begun climbing in a gym are fortunate to have outdoor routes that bridge some of the distance between the gym and old school climbing.
The Forsooths? Aren't they near the Reisenstein?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
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Here is a story for Scrubber. My first time on Ultimate Everything, was my first real "Epic". To set the scene, I was with two friends who were pretty new and I had led more trad pitches but I was pretty green too.
Kyle was going to split the pitches with me, but was nervous about it because of his near ground fall on Mosquito (as a result of a run-out.) the previous fall.
Like I said, we were new. We had done Dierdre, Bannana Peel a bunch of times and I had seconded Calculus and a lot of single pitch easy trad around the valley.
I don't know what gave us the idea that a party of three would be smart.. None of us had a full Chief ascent under our belts yet, and we didn't even know a fourth with enough gear to come with us, so up we went.
We got a leisurely start at the Apron parking lot about eight. We saw Big Jim and invited him to come with us, but he declined unfortunately. We hiked up to the base of Bananna Peel and pulled the gear out of the packs. We had two ropes and my rack of singles with nuts for doubles to 2". The plan was that the leader would go, then bring up the second, who would bring up the third, Switch ends, lead next pitch, so on and so on. Wow.. slow. We didn't have any traffic in our way and nobody was behind us, which was a good thing.
Eventually we make it up to the top of the Apron and cross the south gully to the base of the Ultimate Everything. I managed to convince Kyle he should lead the first pitch since it had a bolt he would be more comfortable. He had a bit of trouble with the crux as we didn't know the sneak move. Some tenacity got him around the corner and got he got going, and he went, for quite awhile. He missed the anchor because we were under the misconception that the top of the corner was where the anchor was, so eventually he gets to the end of his rope, and it didn't even come to me to continue climbing.... so we sat there for while. He said he put a cam in and just sat there.
There was a couple parties waiting by this point, and one of them offered to pass us and go see what was going on. I agreed since I had no idea what was going on and no inclination to simulclimb. Once they got up to Kyle, they built him a gear anchor and lowered him on their rope, to the anchors. When I got up to the belay, Kyle explained what had happened
and stated that he was not leading any more pitches today and that I was going to have to lead the rest if we wanted to get up this thing. I agreed. To be fair we had next to no mentoring and were pretty much figuring stuff out as we went, and he was was still super freaked out about the "Mosquito Incident".
Everything went pretty smooth after I figured out that you go right on the second pitch and placed a sh&&ty nut right before the bomber bolt. Until we got to the second to last pitch up the dyke and things started to get dark... I brought the boys up and set out with my headlamp on, up the 11b/10a A0 pitch. By the time i'd slung the first bolt, it had started to rain. I heard the boys whispering at the bottom, "It's starting to rain", "Yeah but don't tell Mike!" as if I hadn't noticed. I got up the
darn thing and brought them up.
The rain wasn't too bad more mist really, but it was pretty damn dark out. None of us had been up to center peak before but we headed instinctivly towards first peak until we got to the open slabs near the edge and got freaked out. I looked around, and the marker for the North peak linkup trail flashed at me. We decided to go that way and decended the trail to an amazing view of squamish lights from the North? Gully. We proceded down the very dark North Peak trail with one Headlight and two very hot lighters
between the three of us. I would go 10 feet then turn around and shine the light for them and then they would come to me repeat adnausem. This took a very long time...
We got back to the car around 2am. We barely made it there.. I thought I was going to collapse on the highway at one point. Fortunatly Tim Hortons was still open when we drove by on the way back to Whistler so we went there and ate what seemed to be the best sandwiches in the world.
We were light. For sure.. Still figuring it all out. Kyle didn't lead trad for five years after that one.
Edit: AD-A-MANTS!, AD-A-MANTS, AD-A-MANTS!
+1 what Kris said!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2012 - 03:32pm PT
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cool! climb up, snowboard down :)
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