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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jun 15, 2014 - 08:03am PT
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In the 1970's, while trying to just get through another LSD trip, Jesus called to me. A very interesting experience. Acid always just stressed me out. Like being in a trap you can't get out of. Pure poison it is.
Anyhow, I could not abide an entity that would come to me only in such a degraded state. At the that time I just told him to check back when I was sober. He never did.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 15, 2014 - 08:08am PT
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i really think when the sperm enters the egg and begins to mesh the DNA that first cell that is a combination of the two parents is when a new life has begun.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2014 - 08:10am PT
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Spider....Jesus calling is okay, it doesn't tar someone with being in an altered state or having some sort of mental impairment. The same can't be said if you get a call from, say, Marilyn Monroe or Joseph Stalin....historical figures we have actual photos of.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jun 15, 2014 - 08:15am PT
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Dr F Christ compels you to post a TR!
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Jun 15, 2014 - 08:36am PT
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only the ones that make through pregnancy can be considered a person, hence a new life.
...so a woman is just a little bit pregnant until she gives birth?
Happy Father's Day!
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jun 15, 2014 - 08:50am PT
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It's all well and good musing about when life begins and other such harmless parlor generic, but when personhood begins, in the eyes of the state, is another, far more serious matter.
Fundies would grant 2 cells all the same rights of personhood (weighted heavily in the fetus' favor, of course) as an actual person - the mother.
This is no harmless, definitional nit. This is the Fundy end game with regards to the rights of women to choose their own destiny. It seeks to enable the State to force women to have unwanted children under penalty of murder.
It should come as no surprise for a movement that has long viewed women as chattel ordered by God to be subservient to her husband.
Hmmm. No human agenda there.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jun 15, 2014 - 09:22am PT
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Lose?
The Fundies have certainly have been doing very well with regards to restricting family planning - of which abortion is only one part. They've been chipping away at the Roe V Wade 2nd trimester rule a few weeks at a time - very successfully. This has been the only real success of the Tea Party Movement.
Who Christ was is conjecture. It is also irrelevant to how public policy should be crafted for today's America.
The issue will go the SCOTUS in some form - and there's certainly no guarantee at this point the Fundies won't win the prize there. SCOTUS may kick the issue back down to the States where it is largely being fought now. We'll need to continue to beat the Fundies back on that front pretty for the indefinite future until either the abortion fetish or the whole Born Again Reaction to Modernity and Social Justice finally dies a much needed death.
The Fundies are training over a thousand constitutional lawyers a year to impose their faith on the rest of us - some of whom have proven quite skilled recently (witness the recent SCOTUS win allowing prayer at government functions).
This agenda should come as no surprise to anyone - it's not like the Fundies are quiet about it.
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Jun 21, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
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...Jesus is not too ba-a-ad is He!!! :)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 21, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
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go-B, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: As a fellow Christian, I am telling you that you are doing the cause of Christ no service with your approach to such subjects. I mean that.
And Christians wide-spread are doing the cause of Christ no service by riding this hobby horse to a froth. Nowhere in the Bible is "life" defined as you take it to be, is "person" defined as you need it to be, or is abortion even addressed much less condemned.
You can make NO cogent Biblical nor philosophical case to trump the rights of a woman regarding her body, which is the necessary environment of the developing fetus.
And your endless quoting of LENGTHY passages of the Bible or various Bible-commentary is the dialectical equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and dancing around with your tongue out yelling, "I can't HEAR you, nah-nah-nah-nah, naaahhhh nah!"
Grow up and ENGAGE the topic.
Your "just a little bit pregnant" line shows HOW confused you are about what the topic consists of. Pregnancy is not the issue under debate. The rights of the fetus, particularly as compared to the rights of the woman, are the subject of the discussion. The woman is undeniably pregnant with a single fertilized cell, yet that says NOTHING about the rights of the fetus.
Until dogmatists like you can get clear about what RIGHTS are, how they inhere in PEOPLE, and how rights affect the relations of people, you remain CLUELESS and DOGMATIC on this subject; and you harm the cause of Christ.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 21, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
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Sure. And everything you just wrote is irrelevant to the discussion.
Believe all you want. But don't impose your perspective on others, especially when it is unsupportable!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 21, 2014 - 07:46pm PT
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Until dogmatists like you can get clear about what RIGHTS are, how they inhere in PEOPLE, and how rights affect the relations of people, you remain CLUELESS and DOGMATIC on this subject; and you harm the cause of Christ.
Mad-B, Do YOU really think you're able to speak for God on what He considers the "Rights" of man?
i myself haven't heard anyone talking about the rights of the fetus, cept the anti-christians. And, i myself doesn't think that the anti-abortion thing for some christians is about that anyhow.
Should a believer in Christ lay down his arms(voice) and say,"Go ahead and have all the abortions you want"? Geez look at what legalized abortion has already produced. Need i reverberate? You show me how its christian to be able to condone abortion. i do believe in the rights of men in a free state. i'm ok with allowing homosexuals equal opportunity in the state, but do i need to go so far as to condone it for anyone? Should i teach my children it's ok? should i allow them to drink, and smoke, and do drugs, and buy prostitutes because the State says it's ok?
instead of focusing on a cell, let us focus on the universe.
Gods Universe!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 21, 2014 - 07:52pm PT
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But don't impose your perspective on others, especially when it is unsupportable!
What does that mean???????
And what are you doing??????
Isn't that the point of discussion???????
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Jun 21, 2014 - 07:53pm PT
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Our grandaughter Rebecca has been through a lot...
...she is truly a gift!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 21, 2014 - 08:06pm PT
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Praise God for lil,Rebecca
PRAISE GOD!
PRAISE GOD!
PRAISE GOD!
Each one of us is so very important we cant even imagine..
All we can do is;
PRAISE GOD!
PRAISE GOD!
PRAISE GOD!
Amen
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Jun 21, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
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Yes, praise god that this young child was born with horrific medical problems. The god that can allow such suffering to an innocent child must be very worthy of our undying devotion.
Yeah. Right.
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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Jun 21, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
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God has a plan...
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
...a good one!
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 21, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
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This thread is proof positive of pure stupid people who think just by running their stupid mouths it means something.
If it is that simple you could conquer death.
Instead this thread is nothing but dead stupid corpses running their mouths against life itself .....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jun 21, 2014 - 10:47pm PT
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Quack!
And the ones ain't talk'in are liv'in?
QuackQuack!!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 21, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
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I'm surprised that no one took my up on the official viewpoint of the gov't of the deification of Geo Washington. It was news to me.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Jun 22, 2014 - 12:06am PT
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What does that mean???????
And what are you doing??????
Isn't that the point of discussion???????
What I am doing IS discussion. It is not enforcement. You hobby-horse-riding, enforce-your-version-of-morality "Christians" are the ones that are trying to IMPOSE your views on everybody else.
Regarding what legalized abortion has done... well, it's pretty significantly reduced the total number of abortions, as well as saved the lives of countless women who now no longer need to have some coat-hanger approach to it!
Regarding the rights of the fetus, actually I HAVE discussed them quite a bit, as well as why a woman's rights will always trump the rights of a fetus.
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