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EvolveOrExtinct
Social climber
SinCity
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Jun 10, 2010 - 08:19pm PT
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Use ANYTHING but the bible to prove the bible... go!!!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2010 - 08:32pm PT
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Safe from "eternal damnation"
What an incredibly childish notion.
Only seven more months until Santa comes down your chimney.
Isn't it time you put aside your childhood and grew up?
Are visions of sugar plums still dancing in your head?
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 08:53pm PT
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Do you need 100% proof to believe? You put your faith in things everyday without asking for proof no?
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:00pm PT
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This man Paul, once Saul, shares his account of the resurrection of Jesus Christ in the book of 1 Corinthians. He puts his reputation on the line by doing so, which, in his time, subjected himself to a lot of danger. Listen to what he says:
"12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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God doesn't promise foolishness, as a matter of fact, He promises "everlasting life".
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:04pm PT
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Eternal Damnation, my ass.
What a 6th century, flat earth society, ignorant concept for an adult to say they believe in.
That's right, tell your four year olds they will burn in hell for eternity if they do something really bad.
Scare the crap out of them, you fuking terrorists.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:04pm PT
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Last I checked (looks up) what we are talking about is: "Why do so many people believe in God?"
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
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did you sell the Ryobi yet?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
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Because they cannot stand the truth that there is no afterlife.
Because they were told to believe in the guy in the sky as children, and still do.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:19pm PT
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This is really getting repetitive.The theists get their comfort from their cherished stories about never dying, the atheists snort derisively and are fine with eventually becoming dust again. And on and on it goes.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:19pm PT
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You're in my prayers Norton...On the subject of a "flat earth", the Bible stated that the earth was round way before the Middle Ages...
"22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;" Isaiah 40:22
Edit: By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle."
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:21pm PT
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How about Darwin...
"Darwin wrote in his book, Origin Of The Species, "Why, if species have descended from other species by fine graduation, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion, instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?"
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:23pm PT
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Genesis chapter one states 10 times that life forms can only reproduce after their own kind (ape to ape, man to man).
All the observable facts of science strongly support the Bible's claim that it is impossible for one kind to reproduce a different kind. The truth is, there is absolutely no tangible evidence to support evolution from any area of science, just theory and a wild imagination!
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:26pm PT
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6 DAY CREATION...
GOD WAS TAKING HIS TIME If a fair maiden kisses a frog which instantly changes into a handsome prince, we would call it a fairy tale. But if the change takes 40 million years, we call it evolution. We often hear that science has proved evolution. Nothing could be further from the truth. You see, people often confuse scientific fact with scientific theory. Current scientific theory does conflict with creation. But the facts of science do not! There are many scientists who fully accept Biblical creation. Surprised?
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:33pm PT
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you're the one that's scary, ID. stay away from mirrors. when you die, i'll bet god will have a special job for you. ever see beetlejuice? you'll be the one selling used cars. keep blabbering away. the next sale is right around the corner.
i'd like to thank dr. F for being so stalwart. most people try to consider others' opinions and maybe find some smidgen of common ground. this guy's as stubborn as a born-again christian, and it creates welcome balance here.
i think hawking was wrong to say that all religion is based on authority. probably he never got exposed to much beyond the church of england. there's lots of good religion out there. i think largo got into some. it has to do with you, A#1, your experience, your perspective, your life. it may have philosophy, it may have mysticism, practice, whatever. but it isn't disruptive. christianity is unabashedly disruptive.
i mentioned it on that old evolution thread which everyone abandoned, but it bears repeating. the latest science seems to have made the universe quite a bit lonelier. the evolution of life--of course, as we know it, but we know a lot--is the result of a fairly narrow set of circumstances, to the point where it would not be unreasonable to suggest that there's only maybe one life planet per galaxy. lots of science goes into this, and i'm not going to argue it here, but it does seem to be a building consensus. so maybe another galaxy has a life planet--really far off, not much chance of travel and visit. worth thinking about among all the pro- and con- god arguments.
eleasarian--my argument against christianity is its failure. i think it has failed the human race and isn't worth the obsessing it gets. i like to use jesus's own words on this one: "by their works you shall know them." by such standards, christianity delivers tons of hypocrisy and none of the caring lovey-poo that jesus seems to stand for. let's recognize what we all have in common on this planet and make that our priority. christianity is a real distraction from the common interests of humanity. not that it's the only one.
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EvolveOrExtinct
Social climber
SinCity
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
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The burden of proof fall on the faithful to bring us evidence of their god. When the say prove he doesnt exist they ask us to adopt a fools folly as you cannot disprove something so intangible. As soon as evidence comes you dont like you simply say "he doesnt act in that way" or some such baloney. It is like trying to hit a moving target... where a new one is presented as the "real target" when you do succeed.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 10, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
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A little sick of people spouting Bible verses as proof.
How about these:
Exodus 21:1-11 Selling your daughter as a sex slave.
Judges 11:24-40 Condoning child abuse
Hosea 13:16 Bashing babies against rocks.
Matthew 19::12 ASV Jesus talking about castration as a way to get into heaven.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 10, 2010 - 10:13pm PT
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^^^^ LOL ^^^^
Holy sh'it!!! YOWAZ ...
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 10, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
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So, John, if you're constantly flirting with illusions how can you be sure that what you "see" is real? Is it possible you're just fooling yourself? The easiest person to fool is oneself.
-----
What I "see" or sense via my sense aperati is "stuff" and I assume it is real in the sense that it has some material heft or substance that I can measure and evaluate. The illusion that we often flirt with is that these substances are themselves "God," or that things have some spiritual "substance" and so forth. Like I said, it's easy to get caught up in the things (foreground) and fool yourself. Jumping into the void is a different deal, as I trust you can appreciate.
You keep out of illusion by staying around people who are also attempting the same thing and getting feedback and staying on course. You never arrive.
JL
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jun 10, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
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Your last paragraph, Tony, is gold.
Thanks for saying it so pointedly and concisely.
Faith, or the lack of it, is the most divisive issue facing our species today; no matter what camp you're in.
If Jesus saves, then he'd better save himself.
"In the beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man created he him.
And Man gave unto God a multitude of names,that he might be Lord of all
the earth when it was suited to Man.
And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God and saw that it was good. And Man formed Aqualung of the dust of the ground, and a host of others likened unto his kind.
And these lesser men were cast into the void; And some were burned, and some were put apart from their kind.
And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did
rule over all the earth. But as all these things came to pass, the Spirit that did cause man to create his God lived on within all men: even within Aqualung.
And man saw it not.
But for Christ's sake he'd better start looking.
We had better learn that "we" are "Aqualung".
Tony
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