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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jun 10, 2010 - 12:28pm PT
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In the end, if someone is determined to jump off the cliff with all the others, and your arguments regarding the consequences are rejected, you just have to stand back and let them jump...
I understand that statement works equally well from both points of view. Agreed.
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jun 10, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
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As to the original question:
Why do so many people believe in God? (Serious Question?)
Simply put, IMO, because they are "taught" to believe by people they trust, it makes people "feel" good, gives many "hope", and more importantly, makes many confidently believe that they have some control over the outcome of things that are really outside of their control... That their God will intervene on their behalf, and alter or influence their destiny for the better. (E.g., love, health, happiness, death, job, ...) No different, for example, than a pitcher who wears the same underwear during a winning streak because he believes that if he doesn't he may "jinx" it.
"When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer, superstition ain't the way"
~Stevie Wonder
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
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rrrAdam, I just ready the article you linked to. Thank you!
Very good and concise, well written as to how to understand the mentality of IDIOTS.
Thank you very much for showing the link.xx
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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Jun 10, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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Thanx for the link, WC... Gonna post that elsewhere.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 10, 2010 - 02:22pm PT
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Dr. F.-
Believe it or not, some people actually question the views they received in childhood from family, teachers, and friends. Sometimes they come to different conclusions in both directions. Sometimes they start out doing it just for teenage rebellion. For whatever reason, it happens and people do actually change their minds about information they've been given.
Some become atheists, others find religion. A few have experiences that completely alter their world view, then re-evaluate their lives and start on a different course. Fortunately life is not so predetermined nor rational as you seem to want to believe. That's what makes it interesting if you keep a truly open mind.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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The fact that you can use "soul saver" in a sentence without discrediting it is progress Tony. Good for you. Keep "working on it".
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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Remember Tony, every Friday night at 7pm, for the whole family! And no, it's not a "scary" place to be on a Friday night.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:20pm PT
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"Some become atheists, others find religion." - Jan
Even others find God.
Thank you Lord for saving my soul.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:22pm PT
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ID seems to be developing RDS - repetitious poster syndrome.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
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And I'm wearing my helmet and my shouldermapads!
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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I've been in those shoes that don't believe. The bottom line for me is, if God turns out to be in the imaginations of men then I'll never know it for when I die, I'll be dead, and that'll be it, back to worm food I go.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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But, if the opposite is true, that there is a God, and I meet Him at the judgement seat, I'm safe from eternal misery. For me, that was an easy decision.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
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How would someone discover God on their own
If you were born, and raised without God
and God was never spoke of
You would never even question the existence of God
You would just know that there is no God,
just as the people that have been brainwashed to believe in God, they know nothing else but God
Poor argument. If you believe that God doesn't exist and wasn't involved from the beginning, then basic reasoning would say that at some point, some human looked around and even though he or she had never heard of God, created the idea of God. That makes this statement...
You would never even question the existence of God
You would just know that there is no God,
False. It happened at least once.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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No other "God" makes the claim:
"16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Wow, now that's putting your reputation on the line!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 10, 2010 - 04:51pm PT
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Stephen Hawking, known for his groundbreaking work in physics, told Diane Sawyer that when it comes to reconciling science and religion, there is only one outcome: "science will win because it works." He also elaborated on his views about God.
"What could define God [is thinking of God] as the embodiment of the laws of nature. However, this is not what most people would think of that God," Hawking told Sawyer. "They made a human-like being with whom one can have a personal relationship. When you look at the vast size of the universe and how insignificant an accidental human life is in it, that seems most impossible."
When Sawyer asked if there was a way to reconcile religion and science, Hawking said, "There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, [and] science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works."
ww.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/10/stephen-hawking-on-religi_n_607753.html
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
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There is so much more to it Dr. F., and I will be forever learning, and thanks for asking an honest question without anger or vindication...
First, Jesus was God in the flesh for if God revealed Himself on this earth, we wouldn't be alive, "20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." - Exodus 33:20
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 05:27pm PT
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According to Augustine, the only thing that differentiates Christianity from every other religion is that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
Dr. F. is right. All Christians acknowledge that Jesus died and was buried. What Christians believe, though, that Dr. F. doesn't, is that He rose from the dead and is alive. That was always the basis of our faith. Look at 1 Cor. 15. The statement was that Jesus rose, and we saw Him. It is the testimony of witnesses.
Those who want to contradict Christianity cannot do it with logic alone, but with personal experience, i.e. "Well, we haven't seen Him, nor have seen seen anyone perform any of the 'miracles' alleged." If you add "Therefore He is still dead, and the miracles didn't happen" you get the gist of Dr. F's argument. The problem is with the "therefore;" It's a non-sequitur. I didn't see Robbins, Gallwas and Sherrick on the Half Dome RNF, but that doesn't prove that they didn't make the FA.
I'll reiterate what I said much earlier in this thread: I believe in God because I know Jesus through the Holy Spirit. I know what I experienced. You can choose to believe or disbelieve me, but mere logic isn't enough.
John
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
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In a nutshell (from that article)...
"So God clothed himself in flesh, becoming the God-man, Jesus, to take back the right to the Tree of Life. The curse of sin, the thorns, He wore on His head, as He became a curse for us by hanging on a tree (the cross). The Just took the punishment for the unjust. Because He did this for us, God the Father gave His only Son a place above all. Philippians 2:6-11, Colossians 2:13-15"
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 10, 2010 - 05:33pm PT
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Phew! Glory to God for you John!
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