Squamish Photos and Stories

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hamie

Social climber

Thekoots

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:08pm PT

"Twee" I say old chap, what a dashed good word, frightfully good really!

BK You're pretty close. Roger was a reporter for the Province, not the Strait. What all did he do? If he had finished his autobiography, then we'd know. The Bonnatti route on the east face of the Capucin for one. He managed to sell the first couple of chapters to a publisher, and received a cash advance. Years later Bruce Fairley asked the publisher if he could read these chapters. The publisher replied that IF Bruce paid back the cash advance he could not only read them, but own them as well. So much for that.

The Province was a morning paper, so Roger worked in the evening. Once or twice a week he would call me, after the paper was 'put to bed', and before he was allowed to go home. I think we spent more time on the phone than on the rock. I sold him a copy of Glenn's green guidebook which had recently come out, but never received any commission. What's with that? Huh? Huh?

thekidcormier

Trad climber

squamish, b.c.

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:10pm PT

Fishboy; Thats a given, its part of the tradition!

Fish Boy

Trad climber

Vancouver

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:13pm PT

..not recent tradition unfortunately...not many cutting edge climbs are put up like that now, even though they used to...

Was just reading about Kurt Smith and his ground up bolted .12's and .13's from the 80's and early 90's, the man is a God!

Fish Boy

Trad climber

Vancouver

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:48pm PT

Ahhh, you're back!

Fish Boy

Trad climber

Vancouver

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:56pm PT

The free variations on Mescalito will have bolts placed on rap probably, pretty sure the original route is untouched and still has 1/4's on it.

Big Mike

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2012 - 10:05pm PT

Glenn- I will happily rope gun you up Skywalker if Mr Frimer doesn't have time.

if i read the comments by some of the developers lately correctly ... it seems like the bolted belays are so that people dont need to carry up a more gear, or for the climb to be less committing ...

Hmmmm.... I was all for offering some multi-pitch routes on the beginner realm of the spectrum to ease noobs into it a bit... But above is definetly not a good reason to bolt in my opinion. I've also been thinking that if people can't set up a gear belay then they really shouldn't be in multi-pitch situations in case of emergency.

I certainly do not agree with modifying a route without the FA's permission which is why I (now not so) jokingly reffered to chopping Diedre.

Big Mike

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2012 - 10:42pm PT

Eric- KM's description of Stefanie's Tears from 2005 says,

Start as for Gonch pull, clip the first bolt on Neighborhood..., then take the righthand line to finish on View Ledge. Climb the fine corner above.

If they both say right and it's right below that sick corner than i'd say it was Stephanie's tears.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 13, 2012 - 11:32pm PT

The original descriptions for Stefanie's Tears, by Glenn and Jeff in about 1995 - of which I happen to have copies - say:

1. "Clip the first bolt of Neighbourhood Bully then move right and up. The 2nd pitch climbs the corner."

2. "Follow Neighbourhood Bully past the first bolt. Move right again and climb a short right facing corner and bulge to View Ledge. The second pitch climbs the striking corner above."

(#2 seems the later/more detailed.)

it seems like the bolted belays are so that people dont need to carry up a more gear, or for the climb to be less committing

Neither of which seems a very legitimate reason, to me that is. But that's no reason to bring out the pitchforks and torches, either. It is a reason for some informed discussion - which may let the Little Smoke Bluffs Morals & Ethics Committee off the hook. Perhaps the question could be framed: "What about those unnecessary bolts?", so as to focus the discussion. On sight is dead as a doornail in Squamish - the vegetation mostly doesn't allow it. Rapbolting is a matter of style - although it can change the character of a route, if not the climbers. Unnecessary bolts imply much more, particularly in terms of compromises, expectations, and the future.

thekidcormier

Trad climber

squamish, b.c.

Mar 14, 2012 - 12:00am PT

so Mr. Foodeater, Sir,

What you're saying is once you and peder got shut down on your ground up attempts some one else came and rap bolted it.. Care to name names? or atleast initials?

I for one think its pretty lame the style and ethics of FAs just dont seem to matter around here any more..

hamish f

Social climber

squamish

Mar 14, 2012 - 12:07am PT

"Rapbolting is a matter of style" ??
Anders, be careful what you print. There is no style with that technique. We could teach your cat how to operate a drill while hanging on a gri gri.

Big Mike

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 12:07am PT

Bruce-

The snow has been amazing lately! It's been soooooooooo deeeeeeeeeeep.

Big Mike

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 12:09am PT

Bruce- Still up in Stewart?

thekidcormier

Trad climber

squamish, b.c.

Mar 14, 2012 - 12:15am PT

Anders, be careful what you print. There is no style with that technique. We could teach your cat how to operate a drill while hanging on a gri gri.

Funny that you mention it Hamish, I heard Anders had his cat up on slab alley and shes the one who convinced him to drill the extra bolts!

Rolfr

Social climber

North Vancouver BC

Mar 14, 2012 - 12:30am PT

"Ultimately , I think that putting up new routes is about ego and best to always remind ourselves of that. We did plenty of new routes back in the day because, like dogs lickin' our butts, it was easy to do." Quote Tami

Sooo....true , but i do so enjoy it!

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 14, 2012 - 01:10am PT

Bruce, I'm doing what I can to help the fish, which are more important than our squabbles here. And no, I won't say what it is. But you might be surprised. Buy me a beer sometime.

We could teach your cat how to operate a drill while hanging on a gri gri. More than I've ever taught her.

Jim, what about the slippery slope side of the debate? That is, that if we say that OK, a few nOOb routes should have unnecessary bolts, to get them off to a good start, are we encouraging them to think that that's how all routes are/should be?

Style: How a bolt is placed.
Behaviour/impact: How many bolts are placed.

A classic means/ends dichotomy.

I agree with gf and Hamish F - bolts should wherever possible, if not always, be placed on lead. (Excepting replacement projects, I hope.) But that's a matter of style, and challenge, or a rule so that the rock has a fair chance. The rock, and following climbers, won't care or perhaps notice how the bolt was placed. (Sometimes they should.) Whereas the more bolts that are placed - admittedly a process facilitated by rapbolting and other naughtiness - the greater the direct and indirect impacts. Also, that on sight bolting opportunities at Squamish aren't very common, although perhaps some climbers could open their eyes a bit.

The lovely cedar to which Jim refers is in this photo, about 4 m right and down from the base of the Split Pillar. The Pillar itself is detached at its base, and at least according to Jim and Ed expanded in 1961.
The tree's roots may reach the base of the Pillar, but may not. It's doubtful that they significantly increase stress on the Pillar. Has anyone measured where the roots are, whether they reach the base of the Pillar, and whether any stress or deformation has actually resulted? Rather than just taking cheap shots at an innocent tree, that is?

It would be a black day for Squamish climbing were anyone to vandalize or remove that tree, and a highly visible advertisement for climber irresponsibility. And even if the Pillar does eventually fall - much more likely as a result of earthquake action - so what? It will sooner or later, and that's natural processes. It doesn't take a genius to see that there were large rockfalls off the Grand Wall not long ago, possibly in the 1700 earthquake. The real question is what's holding the Pillar up, not to mention all the flakes poised above it? Thousands and thousands of tonnes of rock.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 14, 2012 - 01:35am PT

But unlike a homeowner, I don't "own" the Split Pillar or Grand Wall, am aware of the natural forces they're subject to, and accept them. And I know it's a natural environment. There are other fine cracks, at Squamish and elsewhere.

Edit: I had a hand in removing the tree/stump that once was at the end of the first pitch of Exasperator. Not that it was going to cause Exasperator to fall apart. There wasn't much stuff in Penny Lane at all.

Big Mike

Trad climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 12:19pm PT

Bruce- You know better than to post such a large quote. Pick the important stuff out and provide the link... What you didn't like my snowboarding pic?

TheSoloClimber

Trad climber

Vancouver

Mar 14, 2012 - 02:30pm PT

Fish, my point on the hypothetical single bolt anchors on Diedre is that so many beginners do it that either they wouldn't know any better than to plug in some gear, or they just wouldn't be bothered. I've seen something similar on the Butt Face where the belay after the crux is taken, so the next party up just belays off the single bolt a couple feet to the right of the actual belay.

I've missed all the pow :( I don't get to go anywhere other than Grouse, and on days they have snow, I end up working or something similarly unnecessary.
I haven't had a proper pow day yet this season. Anyone want to take me up somewhere?