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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Feb 13, 2009 - 12:27am PT
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I'm on it, Principal Cracko expect a message shortly.
Btw, I don't live by the 80 week, I just find that that's about what it takes for a month or so in a new gig, and every so often when certain things hit a high point otherwise itn often does get back to the 50 or so that Todd mentioned.
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Feb 13, 2009 - 12:51am PT
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I'd just like to say (write) I'm proud to be in a profession that has the kind of people; teachers and administrators who are voicing their thoughts here.
And, to the supportive parents of your children...you have my admiration and thanks.
I have not read passion like this for awhile now.
Keep up the good work gang!
Cheers,
DD
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Feb 13, 2009 - 10:47am PT
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True dat DD...I vote for Todd Gordon as President of the "ST Teacher's Morale Booster Committee" and Jaybro for Veep! Thx. again guys for the support and words of wisdom...
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Feb 13, 2009 - 11:39am PT
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"I vote for Todd Gordon as President of the "ST Teacher's Morale Booster Committee" and Jaybro for Veep"
Hell, I've never meet either one (I don't think) but I'll second that vote:-)
Cheers
DD
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Feb 13, 2009 - 10:10pm PT
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""I vote for Todd Gordon as President of the "ST Teacher's Morale Booster Committee" and Jaybro for Veep""
-I've met both of them and the older one is pretty cool and knows his zhit!!
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couchmaster
climber
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Mar 11, 2009 - 04:21pm PT
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I just couldn't imagine this woman making any money as a prostitute anywhere outside of a school for the blind....sorry, jus sayin'.
This one: yes I could.
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Doug Zeissner
Trad climber
Buena Park, ca
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Mar 11, 2009 - 06:41pm PT
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I have read through this thread and found it somewhat curious that teachers are the topic of displeasure for the " results" of the educational system. Its a lot like blaming the soldiers for the mistakes of the generals and the politicians. I must agree with some of the comments of the ESL kids and non- responsible parents being part of the equation. I am looking at the schools in my area ( I have a 5 year old going to school next year ) and have noted that there is a direct correlation between academic acheivemnet and the percentage of ESL kids and subsidised lunches. Looking at schools in the same area I find it hard to believe that the teachers are better or worse at the different schools. I have to believe that the teachers in the the private schools near me are really not any different than the Public school teachers. I think that the private schools- because of the extra expense recieve a higher percentage of motivated PARENTS, and may not have the same political hoops to jump through.
That said,I am fortunate that I am in a position to send my kid to a private school ( even though it hurts!)not because of the superior teachers- but mostly because of the demographics and
the involved parents.
Our friend Todd deserves our respect. I am sure he earns his paycheck. I am sure that there are underperforming teachers- but there are underperformers in every workplace. Look beyond the teachers to find the real reason for California's educational crisis- unchecked immigration- the politicalization of the system and the centralization of the school " standards" as some of the real culprits.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Mar 11, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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I teach at one of the best schools in Minnesota- and I doubt there are very many better in the country.
What we have that let's us succeed is a good family base- not too many single parent families. Raising kids is hard work and it's more than twice as hard to do it alone
Our kids are polite and respectful-I can come in to teach and not have to deal with a bunch of snotty behavior
We have an upper middle class community that buys into the education thing- translates into family support. When I call home for help I get it.
Our kids aren't hostile to each other- they have the ability to get along.
If I was going to list what a kid needs to be successful heres how I'd break it down
1. Willingness to struggle and work hard
2. Be polite and respectful- makes people want to help you if you're not a pain in the ass
3. Don't take yourself too seriously
If you've got these three you can go a long way. Take even one away and your chances for success drop off
Look around at the people you know who are happy with their lives and themselves. People who you enjoy hanging with. Bet they have these qualities
thats Mr. Hobo to you
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couchmaster
climber
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Mar 11, 2009 - 07:00pm PT
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Mr Hobo just nailed it.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Mar 11, 2009 - 07:04pm PT
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Reading some of the other threads regarding pay- I make approx. $65,000 for 9 months- after 23 years or so doing the job. I have a good pension that I can access at 55. But I pay (with my employer) 11% of my income into my retirement account
I figure I have 3-4 months off every year- and thats worth a hell of a lot to me- Too many poor slobs get a high paying job but then they're screwed because they have to work and work and work- I'd rather have limited means and the time to pursue my own interests
It's been a pretty interesting job for me- gives me a chance to be creative and to work with kids- maybe even make a difference-maybe not- that'll be for my students to decide.
I worked for 15 years at a tough school-worked my ass off and it simply wasn't working for me. Too much stress and my health started to fail.
Took another job across town at my present school.
I'd recommend going into teaching but don't expect to have everyone blowing sunshine up your a*#.
"Takes about ten years to learn how to teach
Ten years to enjoy it
And then ten years to figure out what else you want to do"
annonymous Seattle teacher
Still Mr. Hobo to you
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 11, 2009 - 07:10pm PT
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It should take waiver by the Governor of a state for a teacher to have more than 20 students. Our priorities are collossaly f#cked up.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 11, 2009 - 07:54pm PT
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haha I only read a few poast, but since I was neck deep in the problem, well, hear this:
IT ain't so much the teachers. I IS partly the money and the ONLY true thing to ever come out of skipt's keyboard is his coment about firing the deppt of education. well OK< not all, byt proably 95% area TOTALLY WORTHLESS< and they spread CRAP and nithign but hte crap, yet they hold great power over what the new teacheres beleive adn are taught-- until those new teachers hit hte realy world and learn the sad truth: educaltion degrees are worthless because hte people giving them out are worthless, and ou learn this if not while putting up with their BULLSIHT, thatn in y9ur first rfew moths of actual teaching.
YEs hterea are lots of good teachers , working for no money. yes that are some bad oens that need to go, Parental involvement makes a HUGe difference is a child's behavior in class unless tha child is badly retarded or a gang member.
thetroublewith throwiingoutthe bad kids is that it's PUBLIC education, but it woould sure be nice to ave real discipline in schools. a taacher shoudl not be responsible ro siacipline, but hat is what is expected.
and I'd LOVE to throw be bad ones out, but wher are you going to put them? theyr are headed for proson. gotta be some way between prison ane lettingthem ruin things that will work, I just don't know waht it is and neither does anyone else.
I won't bore you with how stupd this one woman (with a phd in education) was , but she did not know waht the word venue meant . she did not know the expression "facinga a sea change" meant, and in fact counted it's useages a wrong, lOL.
Anotehr brilliant guy told me in writing that if Ithought I could tach logic to 9th greaderes iwas in for a rude awakening, but when I tried, I had better luck with that that anything else-- becuase they had never seen it before, and first priciples are VERY simple.
THose education PhD's are just idiots in lager part.
On the other hand, some are quite accomplished.
NOt going into administration vs teachers, but that can be a real mess.
Oh yeah, Russ is speaking like a rethuglican moron. That's why people gave him crap for what he said, Lynne.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 11, 2009 - 08:19pm PT
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Teachers aren't the problem, the DoE isn't the problem, the principals aren't the problem or the solution - the problem is 50,000 local school boards all cranking out a lousy product. They are also rooted in nepotism in most rural states where the school systems are often some of the states' largest employers and the whole system is open to, and rife with, gaming the $'s/student numbers in each state. Tennessee is a good example of a disasterous state system, but there are no shortage of others.
The idea that local school boards can deliver education in this country holds about as much water as say the free market forces can regulate the financial industry - local school boards, and our system of letting them run education, has MISERABLY FAILED our nation since the end of WWII. We will NEVER solve our education crisis so long as this is the way we go about it.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 12, 2009 - 12:09am PT
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haha you got one I missed. It's soooo complicated, you have to fix em all at once, which going to be nearly impossible.
and do you know whrea a lot of politicians, especially right wing creationists get their start?
School board elections-- the one that is paid the least attention and actually has a LOT of power, just not in most people's minds.
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 12, 2009 - 12:35am PT
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hobo_dan, sound like you've got it figured out. Awesome.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Mar 12, 2009 - 10:55am PT
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Rankin- I tried to apply for a job in Bishop in 1985- I was about to drive from Minnesota for the interview but they wouldn't/couldn't wat for me to get there
So I stuck around here and met my wife that June.
Go figure
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Living in the Pabst
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, CA
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Mar 12, 2009 - 11:12am PT
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My wife has been an elementary school teacher for about 15 years and what Mr. Hobo said is spot on.
And while she probably wouldn't agree with me, I think she makes some decent money - especially when you consider the benefits (health, dental, vision retirement..).
Anyone who gets into education to make "good money' is not going to be happy and is probably the "wrong" person for the job.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 12, 2009 - 12:46pm PT
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Skip,
I'm still hopeful that Obama will confront the education problems. Frankly, I have more hope in him that I have in any Republican, because he has a credibility with the movers and shakers in education that no Republican has. In a way, it's like Nixon going to China, or Clinton championing NAFTA and welfare reform. An Obama attack on the educational status quo will more likely result in bipartisan reform than would a Republican attack.
Otherwise, I strongly disagree with those who say that we need not offer more money to get better teachers. More money may not make a difference to someone right out of college with little debt, but to anyone else, the amount of debt accumulated in college -- or the obligations taken on in a more highly-compensated carreer -- greatly limits the career choice. The larger and more diverse the pool of those considering teaching, the greater the likelihood that we hire our best teachers.
I know I never considered switching to teaching as a full-time career, even though I loved doing it, and all of my students encouraged (even begged) me to do so, when I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year practicing law. Only when health issues forced a career change (and weathering a financial catastrophe) did that become possible. I doubt I am alone in that situation.
I personally prefer larger classes, but then I teach at the college and professional level, not, say, third grade. I know my daughter, who teaches high school math, thinks that large classes are less of a deterrent to good teaching than irrelevant topics, incompetent administrators and teachers (at various levels) and indifferent parents and students.
I know some find this distasteful, but I also think that raising the compensaton of teachers might raise the prestige of the profession to something closer to what it deserves. I've received tremendous gratification -- and lots of positive strokes -- from teaching, but I know a lot of wonderful, dedicated, talented teachers who deserve much greater esteem than what they've been given.
John
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Zclipper69
Trad climber
mill valley
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Good People of the Taco,
I'm a senior in High School—I have just spent all of my young life in public schools in Mill Valley, Ca, which are supposed to be among the best in the country.
Public education sucks ass.
Well to be fair, it has treated me fairly well, as I've learned a handful of things, been inspired by teachers (a few times), and I've gotten decent grades.
However, what public schools do not do, and for them to be successful in their educational goals it is imperative that they do this: is explicitly and convincingly tell students the importance of an education both for themselves personally and for their society.
In a capitalist society you will get f*#ked if you can be f*#ked; if you are stupid or lack critical thinking skills you will be swindled, cheated, and for all intents and purposes, you will be f*#ked by people who are rich or just know that they can f*#k you over. We have seen this recently in the case of the Trump and his policies— the removal of net neutrality, deregulating the environment, as well as the recent GOP tax bill. These are just a handful of examples, I could fairly easily list hella more.
Additionally, there are a multitude of crucial things not explicitly taught in public schools, which are once again very f*#king important to teach: critical thinking, basic principles of physics, how to make a convincing argument (rhetoric), and practical math. Well, yes, it is possible to learn these things at a public school, you have to want to learn them to actually be able to learn them. That is wrong, as these are subjects which all people living in a science-based, fact-based, modern society must know. Democracy works best when all citizens are well educated and thus can see through bullshit and avoid getting f*#ked.
I could go on and on about this bull sh#t, but sleep is calling. I barely scraped the surface on this sh#t.
I would highly advise looking over Chongo Chuck's website: http://www.chongonation.org/
Zclipper 69, out.
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