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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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Or is this an isolated case of....fill in the blank. Remember not all investment bankers are greedy crooked scumbags either.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:21am PT
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Private Schools Rock !!
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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Some private school rock, hard! But do note that like home schooling, they are not held to the same standards as public schools!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:25am PT
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Since when did public schools have standards?
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:41am PT
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Kids gotta wanna learn.
Teachers need the authority to 86 the kids what don't.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:42am PT
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AA5.10 "not all investment bankers are...."
Really, I dunno, think mayhap they are....jess sayin'.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:45am PT
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Pay the teachers more......and teachers are just like anyone else;...human....How about dinner and a movie for sex;......happens in every town in America on a Friday night....
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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Chaz, "Kids gotta want to learn."
Well, I got mostly A's with a few B's but it wasn't cause I was a dedicated little kid. I knew this kiddo betta not come home with bad grades or poor conduct marks....or else.
My parents only spanked me twice in my life....not about grades either. But I respected their ...... and I knew I betta not let them down. Jess Sayin' : D
PS, Teachers should not have to "86" kids. Parents need to do their job.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:47am PT
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Lynne,
I wanted to learn AND I got 86'd.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:49am PT
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Chaz, you must email me. How could this happen ? Or better, put it here on the ST so we can all figure out how these kinds of things happen. Feel for yo Bro ! Lynne
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:50am PT
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Gordo..... seriously.... you Cali teachers are VASTLY overpaid.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:51am PT
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To the thread title; something of both, but exclusively.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 12, 2009 - 02:03am PT
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Before I read the link, I deluded myself into thinking that MSNBC had seen the light. My daughter is currently enrolled in the credential program at Fresno State. Her textbook had, early on, a graph of teachers' salaries relative to those of doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. The point was not so much that teachers are underpaid, as it was that one should not go into teaching for the money. Fair enough.
I've often felt, though, that we should pay teachers much more (say $100,000 a year) and quit trying to pare class sizes down so small. I think you may get a different type of person interested in teaching, namely ones for whom the opportunity cost becomes less.
My daughter has her undergraduate degree in math. She had much more lucrative offers than teaching. The same isn't necessarily true, though, for an English or history major. If you paid teachers a premium, you might end up raising the prestige of the profession enough that parents might even stop thinking that their kids are right and the teacher is wrong (yes, I know I'm dreaming).
Of course, this only works if new and better teachers can oust less competent ones, so I give it about as much chance as I have a freeing the Nose but, hey, it's worth a try.
John
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Feb 12, 2009 - 02:30am PT
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...and the merry-go-round continues...
"Since when did public schools have standards? "
Uh, for awhile now...doesn't mean though that they are quality nor being applied.
Truth is many school both public and private suck, but the majority continue to have an extremely difficult job and do the best they can given the circumstances.
Russ you got kids?
What is the parents'job and responsibilities?
What are the school's job and responsibilities?
What is an individual's job and responsibilities?
What is society's job and responsibilities?
When schools/teachers/administrations are expected to do more than their jobs and then fail in some way because of a list of variables, so often the "schools'" are blamed.
How about spreading that responsibility around?
It's so easy to whine and complain (not saying your whining Russ) as so many people do, but we all have responsibilities towards educating our youngster. To "blame" it on the schools without recognizing all the variables I think is a major disservice to everyone.
Just saying...
Teachers are people too. So this lady #ucked up. Interesting that the admin. mentions she had not had any disciplne issues and was a "very good teacher".
Maybe she was, maybe the admin. dude sucks at his job.
Maybe she just likes having guys pay her for sex...
We've had many threads about the state of our schools...
wonder if they (schools) are on the list of "change" that is "coming."
Cheers,
DD
edit:
You get what you pay for- usually (though in the case of some of these exec. in the banking/loan buisness you have to wonder...
I have usually found in my capacity as a teacher that if everyone is involved and doing their job (and actually caring) than great things happen.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Feb 12, 2009 - 02:38am PT
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An education is a privilege.
Aside: Why do some of you peeps attack russ and others? I personally love his/their wit and humor on the taco. If you go for the jugular yo gonna kill the fun posters on the ST.
Say, go after me if you need a target. It will be a new form of entertainment and I can focus less on trying to cope on my scary and insane life. Lynnie
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Feb 12, 2009 - 02:57am PT
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I have a high school teaching credential. When I did 7 months of student teaching in Oakhurst, I was astounded at the quality of people teaching kids. Truly fine people who weren't in it for the money.
It would be great if teachers were paid more but the unwelcome side effect would be that people WOULD start doing it for the money.
Any school that has the prestige and resources to skip the cream of the crop students is going to do great.
The larger problem is our culture. We don't value education and kids think that they don't need or benefit from learning (unless their parents are special and clue them in somehow)
It's a culture problem. We're decadent and will suffer for it.
There is hope though. I know some younger generation kids that sure shine. Just wish there were more of them
PEace
Karl
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Feb 12, 2009 - 03:44am PT
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So DD:
If we get what we pay for, shouldn't we have the best schools in the USA here in California? And the best teachers?
California leads the Nation in teacher salaries, yet is 34th ( and as low as 46th on some charts for reading and math) out of all States in SAT scores. Obviously, we are not getting what we are paying for.
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Feb 12, 2009 - 04:46am PT
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"If we get what we pay for, shouldn't we have the best schools in the USA here in California? And the best teachers?
California leads the Nation in teacher salaries, yet is 34th (on some charts) out of all States in SAT scores. Obviously, we are not getting what we are paying for."
Good questions Russ.
On the surface you'd think so wouldn't you.
I remember moving to CA in '77 after I graduated because it had cheaper ed. and was quality...
I do not pretend to know all the answers, but I think the following are contributors...
The problem about cost is fairly subjective IMHO (regarding salaries). And, "pay" in my use does not ONLY include salaries-so if I was not clear I'm sorry... but...
Money is a funny thing...
What state has the highest cost of living (I don't know but I'll bet CA is right up there).
What state has the largest Pop. (per-cap. I don't know but I'll bet CA is up there).
Which state has the highest ESL pop. my guess...CA
I think Karl is on to something when he says our priorities just aren't in the right place (paraphrasing).
Salaries are not the only factor though. More money does not solve the problem, just as a fine rack doesn't make the climber.
If all else were equal, then maybe we could narrow it down to that, but it isn't.
When you pay for a professional to do a job which they are trained for, then create barriers which keep them from doing the job they are trained for, success is going to be limited.
I really don't want to get into all the NCLB (no child left behind) issues, but to make a point that is one variable, along with the couple I mention above.
And, you can't make someone learn, that has to come from within. Learning needs to be valued by the individual and society as a whole. The gang bangers and others that have to be in the same classroom with them have a real challenge in this regard (for an example),as does those students' teacher- no matter what they are paid.
One final thought, I think many many teachers would rather have students with loving, nurturing, caring parents and belong to communities that are supportive and recognize the intrinsic value of children, have less students to teach on a daily basis, are thought of and treated as professional, and valued as such than to have a higher pay check...
Cheers,
DD
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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Feb 12, 2009 - 04:51am PT
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I'd say both - too little pay, and you don't attract people who might be good teachers but who also care about money. While there are no doubt a lot of really good teachers already, who just happen not to care too much about low pay, if the pay were higher, the marginally qualified teachers would find it harder to keep their jobs.
Pay the university professors less, and pay the grade school teachers more. The university profs. have a relatively small effect on their students' learning potential. Probably the junior high school teachers need extra pay too, for hazardous duty.
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