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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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"do you think that a former Vice President is really an average Californian?"
Oh your right, Al is one of the elite so the rules don't apply.
Arnold, international movie star and Governor, however, should be attacked at every oportunuty for driving a Hummer....
liberal hypocrits.
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ADK
climber
truckee
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I think arnold is doing a great job with the environment.
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dirtbag
climber
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Shack,
Don't you think that a former Veep has more responsibilities and obligations than the average person, especially if the Veep is working from home?
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L
climber
The City of Lost Angels
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Wild Bill--You are welcome.
Pagan--I didn't know that about transformers either. Now I've got to go pull so many more plugs!!!
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dirtbag
climber
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"I have learned that when your "gut" i.e. the "red flag syndrome," acts up, it is best to attend to it. Perhaps you and others can figure out what it is that I am reacting to but it is not a positive thing where this man is concerned. There is something I don't trust about him and it is on a very deep level. I don't think it is fear; it is something else but at this point I cannot completely identify much less articulate it. In short, I would NOT buy a used car from this man. "
Fair enough. I don't like Edwards for the same reason. Why not just say that instead?
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L
climber
The City of Lost Angels
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LEB--That's where fear resides--in your "gut". If you haven't seen the movie An Inconvenient Truth, I highly recommend it. Viewing it will give you a totally different perspective of Gore. And Global Warming.
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Ok, I'm a jerk for saying this, but it's "hypocrisy" and "hypocrite."
This is a hard word to remember, and we get to use it so seldom.
Flame on!
edit: Whitey cuts it up: "LEB, you voted for Bush so who the hell are you to judge Gore. If you voted for Bush you should think twice about trusting your obviously dreadful instincts."
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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No doubt dirtbag, and I would definitly cut him some major slack if we were talking about his one and only mansion, but he has 4 mansions.
So is being rich an automatic pass on saving energy etc.?
Left Logic:
Rich guy NEEDS more energy...he has more and bigger houses, jets, cars etc.
Poor guy should save every milliwatt possible.
So the Gore message is all about the message, not the practice.
In fact it seems the message is, If you can get OTHER people to conserve energy, then you don't have to.
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dirtbag
climber
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I was just asking: where is the hyocricy?
And I don't think my other comment is petty becuase it doesn't seem like you had been reading what others wrote. Others have complained about this in the past, and you seemed to have been doing it here too. I have nothing vested in Gore. I'd like to see him run for Pres, but that is all.
I think thes early Swift Boating shows that the right is scared of him. It makes me wonder why the f*#k he'd want to run and face this unrelenting smear machine. This nonsense about his energy bill seems like distorted bullshit being peddled to the masses, and it appears that the masses are once again uncritically gobbling it up without digging into the "story" a bit deeper.
Sad.
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dirtbag
climber
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Shack, how do you know he is not saving every milliwatt possible? I think asking everyone to save every milliwatt possible is impractical and undesirable. I don't believe that Gore has asked people to save every milliwatt possible.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Lois,
I have a strong suspicion you're going to be hearing a lot more from Gore. He's a politician before anything else; he's ambitious; he lost a presidential election. This is all politics. Oh, and he just won an Oscar.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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And Gore's response to the "smear campaign" and "lies"....
(the sound of crickets chirping here)
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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"But what I don't know (nor cannot know) is what the world would have been like if Gore had been elected. I can't be sure my instincts were wrong given a choice between these two men. Without knowing that, we cannot say my instincts were "wrong."
Maybe not, LEB, but let me take a stab at it:
No war, and thus
No war dead (not JUST American and other military folks, RIP, but the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF IRAQI CIVILIANS killed, RIP), and
No shifting of wealth via the war, and thus
No decades of debt for our kids (and their kids) to repay, and
No meteoric rise in global hatred of and opposition to our united states, of which we could formerly be proud (relatively speaking, it was paradise).
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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just trying to help...outlet strips can make it a lot easier...
the epa pulled a bird out of salt lake and tested it for mercury last summer. it had the highest concentration of mercury ever tested in a bird. period. ever.
debate all we want about who said/did what to who...this is where we live, that's all...be a shame to all die in the fire while we argue about it...
tom
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Shack the logic makes sense like this.
You tax the rich because they have more money.
But you limit the poor's energy use because there are more of them. You see the poor guy's car is likely to be at least as big a polluter as the rich guy's.
Even poor people heating their homes in Vermont by burning wood have a similar carbon footprint to the guy heating his mansion with the latest energy efficient furnace. But there are a couple orders of magnitude more of them.
Kind of like that bank robber who was asked why he robbed banks.
This thread really is pretty funny. You got the people who couldn't spell their way out of a paper bag opining on hypocrisy, and whether or not the science is valid, and calling everybody who does not agree with them names.
All the while, if the scienctific conclusions put together by the pols on the IPCC are valid, the fundamental problem is the number of people on the planet. The carbon foot print of humanity is only 5 percent of the total, which is not to claim that there is not a very sensitive balance involved.
I did like the quantitative data on Gore's usage vs the average Californian though. For a number of reasons Californians come out on the low end of per capita energy consumption. But it was a nice start.
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dirtbag
climber
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Did you guys skip the part about Gore installing solar power, driving a hybrid, using alternative energy sources to run his home, etc?
You're right--what a hypocrite!
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jstan
climber
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Lois:
I think people should have the freedom to form their own opinions. And the responsibility to look at the data while doing so.
Granted we all have something called "intuition". That said, intuition can only be a stimulant for a more determined examination of the data. The fact intuition can not be proven wrong by our running life through two times under different conditions, does not in any way remove our responsibility to move beyond intuition.
High mercury levels in SLC are probably related to the large number of coal fired power plants in the four corners area. Again I forget the source, but I have seen epidemiological studies of medical conditions showing exponential increases in modern times, which were tracking areas downwind of four corners. At the time no conclusions had as yet been drawn. If mercury's compounds have spectral structure in the midwave and longwave IR atmospheric windows, sensing from space may be a possibility. A little research needed to see what has been done here.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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dirtbag, if he installed solar power, why did he meter so much electricity in excess of his own generation?
We will just call that "An Inconvenient Fact" tm
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