Bolting between existing cracks at Suicide rock

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rottingjohnny

Sport climber

Sands Motel , Las Vegas

Oct 16, 2017 - 10:58am PT

Mooch...don't feel bad...I just learned that we landed a man on the moon...bitchin man...rj

Friend

climber

Oct 17, 2017 - 05:07am PT

Great thread. Looking Sketchy made a good point early on.

There is a reason that some climbs are listed as TRs in guidebooks. They might be a fun distraction while in the area, but were not deemed worthy of bolting (in this case far too close to existing routes).

It's an aesthetic question, so people's opinions will vary. +1 for the sentiment that just because something can be bolted doesn't mean it should.

dee ee

Mountain climber

Of THIS World (Planet Earth)

Oct 17, 2017 - 12:07pm PT

Chris/Jeff, Yes, the last time I saw Warren was a number of years ago (a large number!) and he was living in Castle Valley.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Oct 17, 2017 - 12:21pm PT

Thanks for the word on Warren.

He had a place in Idyllwild where the second floor had a banister around an open space where the stairway came up. He had a bar across the open space. You'd put on inversion boots (hooks on the toes,) swing out on the bar and hang upside down. It was kind of freaky.

I think it was Warren who introduced me to the Tahquitz classic pitch called Zeno's Paradox. I went on and introduced several others to that one. Not done much. Very good climbing.

And since everyone is so pleased with the civility on this thread I won't get started on those bolts... ;-)

Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Oct 17, 2017 - 01:05pm PT

Warren and ???? (was it Carrie?) were known as the "Old Ass HIppies" in bugger-speak. I remember a weird robot animatronic thing in their house... wasn't he an AI or robotics guy? Good and fun folks as I recall.

Hubbard

climber

San Diego

Oct 17, 2017 - 08:11pm PT

I am curious who did the first ascent of Indian Buttress regular route. Also who did the first ascent of Hinterland crack? Good routes, and quite the mystery.

JLyons

Sport climber

Cali

Oct 17, 2017 - 08:48pm PT

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/indian-buttress/109903967

This one says frank and his friends

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Oct 18, 2017 - 07:34am PT

Great discussion, thanks for clarifying llama.

If the bolting was done "for the community" then as a member of said community I cast my vote for removal. They stand out quite a bit and some climbers on guillotine will certainly clip them.

Not all things need to be led - or bolted, or logged on mountainproject, or climbed at all...

StahlBro

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Oct 18, 2017 - 08:17am PT

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to the civil exchange of perspectives on this thread. It really helps to understand the facts, and have a chance for people to personally share their motivations. Slander sessions may be entertaining, but they seldom accomplish anything.

I tend to agree with GDavis. I think helping maintain environmental aesthetics is part of the decision process when one decides to bolt. Rocks are important, at least as important as people's recreational desires.

After doing FA's in the JT backcountry we would often top rope adjacent lines, just for the fun of climbing them. Sometimes we would name them, sometimes not. Many times they went unreported. Hopefully somebody else will wander by and have an adventure on them, or we will bring new friends back to them some day.

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2017 - 10:27am PT

Ksolem-
I did not climb with Warren although I believe I saw him a few times?

In the 80's I was a general contractor/ cabinet builder and my climbing trips were almost always "shop to shop" with one of my employees (that were almost always climbers).
Dan Brawley, Tony Tallarita, Geoff Fulerton, Bill Herzog and many others formed the usual group.
We were ok! Not compared to Bachar, whom I met the first time while he was down climbing the thing I was leading, ( Toe Jamb, 76 ? ), or Yabo, whom I met the first time when he was down soloing ( in tennis shoes ) the thing I was on sighting, ( North Overhang, 77 ? ). Etc..

Dan and I did almost every 5.10 on Tahquitz together. He's a quadropalegic now.

Live well this day.
Ernesto

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Oct 19, 2017 - 10:33am PT

Mooch...don't feel bad...I just learned that we landed a man on the moon...bitchin man...rj

Dude,

Don't fall for the fake news...

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2017 - 10:45am PT

I was on Lone Pine Peak with Rottingjonny when he got hit by lightning.
I think it was 1978 ?
I was leading, about 100 feet from the summit. He tried to run off the ledge but he was tied in.
17 hour- direct to the valley- descent after that one.

We came back 10 months later and retrieved my small slung nut and oval carabiner on our second time up the route.
Bivied on the descent, near the summit.

Not a thread drift, now you understand his posts a little better perhaps.
(;

I will post again after I go up to that part of the rock that this thread is about.
Ernesto

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Oct 19, 2017 - 10:47am PT

squared off

I wouldn't say they squared off, since squared off has a heavy and threatening connotation. :)

Anyone that starts off hostile to a retrobolter acting without FA consent, especially if the retro'r is new to bolting, is going to get the push back.

Anyone that starts off with good intentions to open dialogue and inform, on the other hand, will likely find an exuberant new climber that probably wants to learn as much as possible about climbing history and respect for the limited resource we use.

If in the end a retro'r doesn't want to pull them, then the option always still exists to go back and pull and patch.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Oct 19, 2017 - 01:05pm PT

F'ing classic!

rottingjohnny

Sport climber

Sands Motel , Las Vegas

Oct 19, 2017 - 06:48pm PT

Bootysativa.... And then there was the night the gas station attendant was wearing the lime green hat signifying that the gas tanks were full...

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2017 - 06:44am PT

Rottingjohny-
Most folks ( especially the cops ) didn't know how to react to the naked lady you had mounted to the grill of your scooby doo van.

I don't remember anything about a lime green cap? But, there are lots of things I don't remember from those daze.

I do remember watching you lead that harder pitch on Whitney where you were trapped in one spot FOREVER ! Later on I soloed that route and avoided that part by going to the corner that was 20' left of there. We thought it looked to hard back then because we sucked at jamming.
And-
I remember a very long night and being really really cold on a bivi on top of Lone Pine Peak, and waiting for the sun to hit us that morning. Sooo good!

Now we are a driftin.