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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 18, 2017 - 09:52pm PT
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Figure 66c was reproduced in later editions... it is not a good way to rappel...
note where the slack is...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Jan 18, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
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Clearly the people I climbed with in 1963 had read that book. They all gave lip service to the dulfersitz and other body rappels at the same time they gave all the cautions mentioned in the book concerning brakebars and then went ahead and used six biner breakbars anyway.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jan 19, 2017 - 06:08am PT
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So, interesting observation in the Freedom of the Hills regarding weather and dulfersitz vs carabiner brake rappel. If it is too cold and icy to build a 3 (not 6) carabiner brake, dulfersitz.
In the Valley, as we all know, it is always 70 degrees, dry, with a slight, cooling breeze.
Back to Steve's question. The carabiner brakes were seen as a tool to lower someone on a rope, but not as a means to rappel, in 1960, in the books, but climbers were using the carabiner brakes. In 1971, Robbins was teaching 6 carabiner, reversed gates, brake rappels. What was in the 1967 Freedom of the Hills?
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HeldUp
climber
Former YNP VIP Ranger
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Jan 19, 2017 - 11:36am PT
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This is such fascinating history. It's interesting that with technology and lighter materials that something else hasn't taken its place.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2017 - 06:11pm PT
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I do most of my rappelling on an ATC these days or I carry a figure eight if weight isn't an issue.
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Tom Turrentine
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 19, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
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anyone ever try that arm rappel?
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john hansen
climber
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Jan 19, 2017 - 09:41pm PT
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I think the arm rappel may have only been ment for low angle stuff, maybe getting troops down 30 or 40 degree slopes..
Interesting subject.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Jan 19, 2017 - 09:47pm PT
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We did a lot of long, free body-wraps before we knew any better. These are about 1961, before the police cared about such stuff.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jan 20, 2017 - 01:50am PT
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A modest contribution to a great thread...
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Jan 20, 2017 - 09:36am PT
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I used one of those brake bars for decades. Steel bar, slips onto a steel biner.I loved that system.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Jan 20, 2017 - 12:20pm PT
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Mighty Hiker - I've got a copy of Wastl Mariner's Mountain Rescue Techniques. For a biner brake rappel it is pretty much identical to the 1960 Freedom of the Hills, except that for a double brake it shows two miners connected by cord, with two hammers as brakes.
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Rustie
climber
Coeur d\\\\\\\'Alene
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Jan 20, 2017 - 12:25pm PT
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Hi there!
Sorry to drop out of sight......too much mountain bike trail politics.......even worse than bolt wars!
Are you doing a gig in Sedona this spring?
OK -- Abseiling.....
Thats what it really was, back in Auld Lang Syne.....
And it was bloody dangerous! "Tous Les Chefs se sont tue en rapell" .......Lionel Terray.
I came in just after the Full Body Dulfersitz gave way to the Sling And Biner (over the shoulder) method.
(There were some 30 variations of The Dulfer).
In Rhodesia It was considered cool to have a white Abseil mark engraved deep into the shoulder skin and muscle. The "birds" loved admiring it at the pool......or so we hoped.
Stitching a patch onto the shoulder was more comfortable ........but totally sissy.
If you were smart the rope was connected via a "Swiss Seat".....a 48" sling of 7mm rope. If not, a shorter sling would do, but would increase the risk of falling out of the whole shebang.
The more comfortable one inch military surplus webbing was unknown outside of the US.
In 1965 I "jumped ship" and tried to pick up some new techniques from the Americans, camped in the dirtbag Brit site in Chamonix. Royal Robbins taught me the Carabiner Brake Rapell. Much safer and comfortable........if, like most Americans, you had a whole bunch of Bedayn Oval carabiners to magically thread together.
The C Brake was pretty good. It could be adapted to control any size of rope, single or double. Just took some practice, and sleigh of hand.
Just about this time Clog was coming out with prototypes of it's game-changing Figure 8 device. When Royal came over to star in the BBC Live TV show. The Red Wall, in Wales, in 1966, I presented him with a Clog 8, in return for his original coaching.
It's sad to remember that Royal's partner on the show was the Enigmatic Doctor, Tom Patey, who was later killed abseiling off a sea stack, on a Fig 8.
Was this your question?
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Jan 20, 2017 - 12:36pm PT
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There may already be one (or more), but I think it'd be cool--and useful--to have a thread on the various ways to improvise when you lose a critical piece of equipment, much like the carabiner brake system. I mean, no offense intended to recent converts from the gym to real rock, but how would most of them know how to do this, if some of us old-skoolers didn't show them? I've done that several times, and it's always been met with slack jawed responses, like, "Whoa! How did you know how to do that?" And because it would make no sense to them to say, "Well, the dulfersitz (like the Whillans Harness) was the mother of invention," I just explain that the method was standard before things like ATCs, etc. But man, what great backup knowledge, right?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2017 - 01:40pm PT
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Hey Rusty- I'll be announcing the Sedona Festival very soon.
I have used the "Swiss Arm Rappel" on the Glacier Point Apron where all the rules of climbing do not apply. Worked like a charm since low angle slabs are exactly what this technique was developed to deal with.
I am curious if anyone ever used the lowering setup shown in Tricouni's post above? The rope enters that brake system at a very hard angle and given that goldline was the rope du jour it would seem to put a lot of torque on the single (gasp!) oval carabiner body which would get very hot as a result.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Jan 21, 2017 - 02:53pm PT
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Steve -
If you are referring to the double brake in Tricouni's illustrations, no - but used the 6-biner rig which is the same as the rappel setup to lower stretcher, victim and handler when I was doing some of the first ranger training sessions in 1959. Two biners, reversed gates, all the way except the brake bars which of course used the hard back. Worked very well, and you could add another biner bar for a heavier load, or even another unit entirely for a really heavy load, or reduce it if needed. Trouble was that it was difficult to adjust the level of friction once you were started, but if there wasn't quite enough the belayer on a separate rope could help out, or even support the load while you adjusted.
We also used Mariner's method of temporarily tying off the lowering line while passing a knot through the brake. Very useful on E. Face Clyde Minaret in about '73, where we lowered TM and a victim around 800' with multiple recreational (dynamic) ropes tied together. Can't recall if they were goldline.
I'm sure current rescuers use much more sophisticated equipment for such maneuvers now, but hell - they worked.
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Kironn Kid
Trad climber
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Jan 21, 2017 - 10:50pm PT
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I leaned to rap with a 4 biner brake setup tethered to my swami.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2017 - 04:50pm PT
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Necessity is the mother of invention when it comes to rescue work.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jan 22, 2017 - 07:19pm PT
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A few years ago Kris and I climbed Bear Creak Spire without any gear... he assured me that the down climb "was casual" ....
F no.... your way up in the sky.
He quickly went over the edge and yelled up... "just start, the big holds show up after a few moves" That is Kris for you.
I was screwed... then I saw a party setting up a rappel. I walked over and asked if I could go down their ropes. The dude said "sure... but it looks like you don't have a ATC or a harness, how are you going to do that?"
"Easy i said, dulfersitz... all the old times did it this way"
no fun at all and i burned my balls a bit, but down safe is down safe..
fantastic topic
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Jan 22, 2017 - 07:27pm PT
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Agreed. One of the more interesting threads lately.
Here's hoping Steve or others can come up with more threads that involve people contributing their personal climbing experiences.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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There is a photo of Wayne rappelling in "Yosemite in the Fifties" (page 182). On the FA of the Nose of El Capitan, probably autumn 1958. Looking rather dashing - and wearing what clearly is a diaper sling arrangement of some kind, using wide webbing at that. But not using a carabiner brake, simply the rope running through carabiners and over his shoulder.
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