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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 15, 2017 - 11:35am PT
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I recently bought a copy of Anthony Greebank's Introduction to Rock Climbing published in 1963 and was surprised to find that he was describing the "modern" rappel technique at that time as a single carabiner attached to a seat sling with the rope passing directly up and over the shoulder and around the back.
Mechanical brakes using brake bars were used in WWII and it made me wonder when the one-on-two and two-on-two carabiner brake systems in common use later in the sixties were broadly introduced. Those of you here on the forum who were actively climbing in the early 1960s, when and how did you learn to use a brake bar and then a carabiner brake system?
I recall seeing carabiner brake systems in the Chouinard catalogs by the late 1960s even though Yvon's modified "D" carabiner was less than ideal for that particular application.
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TLP
climber
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Jan 15, 2017 - 12:50pm PT
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FossilClimber must know about this. They did a lot of rappelling off the Nose, and though it seems to me I have seen a photo of Harding with a leather shoulder patch, you'd think somebody, like Dolt at least, might have thought there needed to be a better mousetrap. I don't know myself, started in 1967 and both the biner-biners and biner-brakebar options were established at that time.
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Jan 15, 2017 - 02:06pm PT
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Good question Steve.
To the best of my recollection, when I took a "basic rock climbing" course offered by the Sierra Club (early 60's), they only taught the good ole body rappel. We didn't do a whole lot of rappelling at Tahquitz or Big Rock in those days.
By the time I got to the Valley (1967) carabiner brake bar was the only way we rappelled.
I would look in the early mountain rescue and/or early caving literature for your answer.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2017 - 02:25pm PT
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I started climbing in 1970 so I have little relevant background here. My suspicion is that the use of carabiner brakes somewhat coincided with the introduction of tied webbing swami belts with integral leg loops and the increasing popularity of ever steeper climbs and descent routes. Some interesting history here I suspect since a whole generation came back from the various wars having used military issue brake bars and walked away from the leather era methods of the 1950s.
It seems that cavers were usually in front of climbers technically out of necessity so it would be interesting to see if there is a crossover here as Phil suggests. Doing a tandem rappel in a rescue situation on a brakebar would be way out of bounds so perhaps a rescue accident lead to this shift.
Werner- Ask John Dill if he knows anything about this evolution if you would.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jan 15, 2017 - 02:37pm PT
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I remember in the late 60s using a single piece of webbing that went around your butt and you pulled up through your crotch and was unattached to your swami and made a "perfect" seat. No problem with free rappel using three biners one with a locking gate. The fearful used a pusik attached to their swami. it all worked great. I didn't get a biner with a bar (which I still have) until much later.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jan 15, 2017 - 02:42pm PT
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In 1967—in the SF Bay area—break-bars were widely used by rappellers. These guys had contraptions that used a gang of brake-bars in series for extra friction. Real climbers, though, carried a break bar to be used with an oval 'biner, specifically for rappelling, and these could be purchased from places like The Ski Hut in Berkeley, etc. The Sierra Club Rockclimbing Section required those of us taking the RCS course to regularly use a Dulfersitz rappel, including on overhanging rappels.
By 1969, at least, we were rapping with 'biner brakes using multiple 'biners exclusively, using a swami belt combined with a runner twisted into a figure-eight as leg loops. This was far easier that carrying a single-purpose brake bar on your rack.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 15, 2017 - 02:53pm PT
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Mechanical brakes using brake bars were used in WWII and it made me wonder when the one-on-two and two-on-two carabiner brake systems in common use later in the sixties were broadly introduced
My guess is that someone who had used a carabiner-plus-brake-bar system found himself without the bar one day. "Oh shit!. I left the brake bar in my pack. Now what?" And then, a lightbulb moment... "Hey, if I put this other carabiner cross-ways, it'll work just like the brake bar."
We always used six ovals. That put the rig in the right orientation, and a bit further off the harness, which seemed to be just the right spot.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 15, 2017 - 02:54pm PT
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Ask John Dill if he knows anything about this evolution
Steve just call him in his office if he's in there (he's probably there right now) .....
(two zero nine)-(three seven two)-(zero two one six)
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jan 15, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
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Yes, Fossil Climber can probably shed some light on this. I remember watching him as Manager of the Yosemite Mountaineering school, instructing a basic class where he taught the 6-biner set-up. So he was certainly one of its early promoters. Royal's books and school as well. And yes, the RCS taught the dulfersitz during the earliest 1960's.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jan 15, 2017 - 03:36pm PT
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Mountaineering , Freedom of the Hills? The first edition was 1960.
Where did it first show up?
I learned the dulferstitz in 63 or '64. I remember seeing a brake bar in an rei catalog, which seemed extravagant at the time, as it required a dedicated piece of equipment. Good for only one purpose. Most ( but not all) climbers already had six 'biners....
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jan 15, 2017 - 04:27pm PT
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Whenever the change to brake systems came, it happened not all at once, it seems. Think about how there was a time lag on most new ideas back then, when there was no instant messaging, etc., and things published in monthly journals were the normal guides or instruments of change.
Word of the new-fangled did not spread like a virus then as now.
This will be a tough question to nail down, Steverino. It's not like Jumars, whose sales can be tracked by date.
As Jaybro says, everyone had carabiners already.
The combination of a over-the-shoulder system with a brake system is indicative, I think. The old could simply not be let go (no pun intended) until the new had proven itself to the older school.
It took some time, but it happened eventually.
Permutations of the system were around, too--brake bars from SMC being one. Like Jaybro, I never bothered with single brake bars--not because of distrust but simply from not needing the things.
Then again, we could just ask Fossil Climber. :0)
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Jan 15, 2017 - 04:48pm PT
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I always thought carabiner brake rappel system were an offshoot from the brake bar system which came from cavers. But who knows?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 15, 2017 - 05:21pm PT
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"A carabiner brake rappel, how logical."
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Jan 15, 2017 - 05:32pm PT
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"Ropes, Knots and Slings for Climbers" (first edition 1960; revised edition, 1967, Walt Wheelock) says: "Although not true knots, the friction brakes are used in conjunction with the friction knots in rescue work, when it is necessary to lower a heavy load under complete control. The brakes are quite easily constructed from the drawings. The cross-bars may be either other carabiners, hammer handles (!), sticks (!!), or the special bars manufactured for this purpose. The single carabiner brake supplies a very limited amount of friction, and most of the load must be supplied by standard belays. The double carabiner brake supplies quite a large amount of friction, and it may be necessary to actually feed the line through the system to get the load to descend."
The diagram of a "single carabiner brake" shows a single oval, with a bight of rope through, and the handle of a hammer as the crosspiece.
The "double carabiner brake" diagram show two consecutive carabiners, each with a single cross brake bar.
It also has two diagrams of "diaper slings".
Perhaps carabiner brakes were first used in rescue applications?
Nothing relevant in "Belaying the Leader".
"Basic Rockcraft" (1971, Robbins) shows diaper slings, full carabiner brakes, etc etc.
Instructional books from Norway and Quebec from the early 1970s refer only to the classic Dulfersitz.
Around here in the early 1970s, the Dulfersitz was used by mountaineers, i.e. that's what most started with. We'd heard of carabiner brakes, but until we saw diagrams and had diaper seats (and enough carabiners) they were somewhat academic. I once saw a European climber descend a short vertical cliff by wrapping the rope once or twice around his wrist/lower arm, across his back, then around the other wrist. Looked rather exciting.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2017 - 05:58pm PT
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Good work Anders!
Not sure how widely read Wheelock's book was but the rescue aspect sure makes sense. That would have spread pretty quickly.
I was in new staff training with Colorado Outward Bound school when the instructor asked us what equipment was necessary to do a multi person litter lower. I asked if there were trees around and when he said "yes, I suppose" I answered "then none". Everyone looked at me quizzically until I walked over to a nearby tree and set up a Munter Hitch around it and said "the tree is going to get trashed but here you are".
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 15, 2017 - 06:10pm PT
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I don't know the answer to your original question, but doing a bit of digging turned up some pretty interesting photos mostly from a site called verticalarchaeology.com...
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TLP
climber
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Jan 15, 2017 - 06:30pm PT
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It is so fun to try to peer back into the murky past through smoke-filled haze... Some good bits here, but also a few I don't think are pertinent. As for the move to steeper climbs and descents affecting methods, I'm not so sure. Higher Spire was 1944, and it's a pretty steep rappel descent. Lower was climbed in the 30s. But definitely, methods the made sense in Britain wouldn't have been the best in Yosemite.
Seems to me we occasionally twisted a 1" sling into a figure 8 to make leg loops, or clipped a biner through it at both sides and between the legs to make a diaper sling, but usually just rapped on the swami. We (well, me personally) definitely did not own any locking biners in the 60s, and also never used 6 of them to rappel. At most 4: one for the slingage, two with gates opposed, and one for the brake bar. Six biners for each guy rappelling adds up to 12 plus any to clip in (hmmm, maybe didn't bother). That's more free biners than we usually (ever?) had. Jaybro nails it: we didn't buy those brake bars right off, it was a single purpose item and that made no sense then. Where do you put it? Every biner got used leading, there weren't spares to hold useless things like brake bars.
Were there really any rescues back then? I thought mostly you either topped out or someone cratered. Rescue was completely unthinkable.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2017 - 06:34pm PT
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Ghost- That is a US military issue steel brake bar from WWII used on a steel oval carabiner. I have one somewhere...Not sure what the "aluminum" version is all about. Spooky!
TLP- I think that sling arrangement was called a "Swiss seat".
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Jan 15, 2017 - 07:57pm PT
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In Boulder in 1963 we were using 6 carabiner brake bars. In that region I'm guessing they were pioneered by Layton Kor? Many people preferred the old goldline ropes for rappelling for the extra friction and because they wanted to spare their expensive new perlon ropes.
Some people like me got a belay when learning to rappel but I don't recall prusiks on a rappel rope. I was taught the old over the shoulder system and the dulfersitz mainly for use in an emergency (in case someone dropped all the gear) and for history's sake.
I can't remember when we used the first nylon slings for rappelling but I think it was after we had tied them into steps with knots for aid climbing. I'll have to check with some early climbers of that era but I think the aiders came first, then the swami and then the diaper sling.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 15, 2017 - 07:58pm PT
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When I started in 1957, it was the Dulfersitz, but the Swiss Seat and swami belts followed very soon after that. Swami belt adoption accelerated after Chouinard (belayed by Kamps) fell 150 feet on the North Face of the Crooked Thumb (Teewinot) in 1959. The Swiss seat method still burned your shoulder and/or neck---most climbers at the time had scars from it, and the iconic Holubar NP22 parka had a leather shoulder patch to protect against those burns.
Somewhere in the mid-sixties we started using carabiner brakes. I suspect the Chouinard catalog had something to do with popularizing them. Here, in a shot taken in the mid-sixties, Bob Williams is using a Swiss Seat, three cross-piece carabiners to supply enough friction for a single-strand rappel.
There's a lot more info (see especially posts Gary Storrick and Kerwin) at http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/482821/History-of-rappelling .
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