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ecdh
climber
the east
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Jun 12, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
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motherf*#ker. another vulnerable community targeted by someone who catalyzed their lack of reason with guns. as usual no wannabe open carry heros close by to save everyone.
thoughts to the involved and the community. a big f*#k you to anyone with a place for guns in their religion.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jun 12, 2016 - 05:12pm PT
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In my state, a new law became effective that permits anyone to carry a concealed weapon without a license or any training.
Obviously our legislature is full of brain-dead Repugnicans.
Sorry, I am being redundant. So I will correct my last sentence:
Obviously our legislature is full of Repugnicans.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Jun 12, 2016 - 05:17pm PT
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If someone carrying a weapon had shot this person before he had a chance to inflict harm, the incident would have never made the news. As has happened before when a good Samaritan has killed someone intent on doing harm.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 15, 2016 - 11:31pm PT
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How terribly sad that just hours ago, and unspeakable atrocity was meted out on our fellow citizens...
Well, if this were an isolated event I'd agree with you, but at this point it's getting to be a monthly occurrence and, with the country literally awash in +300m of them, guns are very much the issue.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jun 15, 2016 - 11:41pm PT
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QuoteMay God bless the families that have suffered such a great loss, and may those injured recover quickly and fully.
And God bless our law enforcement personnel and first responders. We need to remember that these types of incidents take a serious toll and them as well. Here
Why the hell isn't God busy at the other end of this cycle?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 15, 2016 - 11:59pm PT
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What's the matter, does that surprise you? That an agent from the Dept of Agriculture would have a concealed carry permit?
No, what surprises me is that the Florida Department of Agriculture is the folks who are supposed weed out the psychopaths and decides who is sane enough to have a concealed carry permit. They issue the permits. I would have thought they'd be busy cutting Kudzu in the Everglades or something.
They did a great job this time.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 02:30am PT
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Bullsh#t. There is no 'right' to flood the nation with +300mil guns of all kinds and so long as it is you're right, no law alone will protect us. What needs to happen is outlawing certain classes of weapons entirely along with a significant no-questions-asked buyback program until we have them under control.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 03:50am PT
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I'd settle for getting a third of them off the street along with real registration, licensing and insurance.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Jun 16, 2016 - 07:23am PT
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Concealed carry gets a lot of people fearful for no reason. CCW (conceal/carry weapons) permit holders are not people to be feared. These are people you'd beg to have around in certain scenarios.
Bullshit Bluewrong. I've had an ammosexual point his fake weenie at me so I researched him. Total dumbsh#t. Loser. Hated and an idiot.
Put this little factoid in your brain: You're far far more likely to end up with a dead or maimed kid from your little piss-tol than ever being a gun hero. You're not an air Marshall. You're afraid and have b.s. hero fantasies.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 16, 2016 - 07:29am PT
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You might get a third 'off the street' but it would be the street that me and my fellow law-
abiding citizens live on, not the street that the gangsters live on. Like they're gonna be
moved to turn in their guns by threats of incarceration? HaHaHaHaHa!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:01am PT
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along with a significant no-questions-asked buyback program until we have them under control.
They have those here in L.A. county from time to time. They're a PR stunt at best.
And the gang members love it. They can get paid to get rid of a "dirty" gun (i.e. evidence) no questions asked. Think about it, they get paid to walk up and hand the gun they shot someone with to a cop. And the fifty bucks or whatever is a reasonable contribution towards their next Saturday Night Special. Cops hate gun buy backs for good reason.
No one is going to be taking their AR or any other gun worth a damn to a buy back.
Also, fwiw, whole classes of weapons - including assault weapons - are already illegal or so carefully restricted that the only ones out there (AK-47, Uzi, for example) are in the hands of licenced collectors and gang members. AR-15 is a standard single shot semi auto rifle in a costume.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 11:58am PT
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They have those here in L.A. county from time to time. They're a PR stunt at best.
Worked exceptionally well in Australia - all about how it's implemented and without making the possession and sale of certain classes of guns illegal it won't work at all.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:29pm PT
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I'm curious as to what you consider "working great" in Australia? Since the gun ban, their murder rate has been flat or slightly dropping (at roughly the same rate as the US). It's pretty clear that gun bans have no appreciable impact on murder rates or violent crime.
So, how is that a success?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 16, 2016 - 12:35pm PT
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Does Australia have an urban violent gang problem? We do here, and the city officials do everything they can to hide it. The majority (it's not even close) of shootings in L.A. are black on black, mostly gang related, with unlicenced black market guns. This is true in almost every urban center in the country.
One clear example of L.A. City covering up gang/gun violence: Several times a year a shooting which makes no sense hits the news. I'm told by people who know that this sort of thing is much more frequent. Some poor guy is driving home on an empty freeway at 3AM and gets shot from another vehicle. The official line is "road rage." Not. Gang initiation is almost certainly the truth.
And then of course there's Chicago's model of ethical govt. Rahm Emanuel paying off the parents of shooting victims to keep them quiet.
So while the Orlando mass murder is unfathomable to the people of the US, it is in no way indicative of the nature of our gun problem. Actually there is an interesting parallel between much of the extremism seen among young middle eastern men and urban gang violence in the US.
Young men in Palestine, Iraq, Iran, Syria... They are abandoned, left with nothing. Those who professed to stand for them, the Arafats, left the scene to live in chateaus in Europe and "negotiate" in Geneva. Foreign interventions, and the US coming in like a bull in a china shop sealed the deal.
Young black men in our cities are abandoned. Like their ME counterparts they have nowhere to turn. Gang life and it's code of loyalty and pride are their sharia (without the history but with the abuse of women). And people like Al Sharpton are their Arafats. Living high on the hog and making noise for their own personal enrichment.
So for us here, step one to making progress on our real gun problem - at least the one taking the most lives in a single population (young black men) - is to get the media to cover it. Chicago. Baltimore. L.A. Detroit. Only an occasional mention after 11:00PM. If the American people can be brought to terms with the facts, to look in the mirror at our own neglect, perhaps we can begin to solve our real problems instead of reacting knee jerk to horrific but statistically irrelevant events.
Sorry for the wandering thoughts and the run on sentences. Obviously I have too much time on my hands today.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 16, 2016 - 04:20pm PT
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No one wants to take illegal guns away from people that bought them legally
It's all about the new guns that are sold,
We want...
extensive back ground checks
limited access to military style weapons
limited ammo capacity
No Fly, no buy
The old guns are out of reach for newbie terrorists and insane christians
and they can't get new ones, so they go home and masturbate instead
The gangs will run out of guns after a decade, and go back to stabbing
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 16, 2016 - 04:27pm PT
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 16, 2016 - 05:51pm PT
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Ah yes, graphs.
So here have so many more gun homicides. In fact we're up to .003% on the national average. I'll stand by my point that one segment of our population is suffering the brunt of it. Various studies show that 50% of gun deaths are among blacks. Anyway at .003%, much much lower for you and me, I'll take those odds and keep some liberty in exchange.
Graph #2, if true which I question, shows that we here own 42% of the developed World's civilian guns. But wait. We have 4.5% of the world's gun deaths. Looks like we're doing pretty well to me.
The only source I could find showing the third graph had in the article a pundit saying "And while it's true that an extraordinary amount of mass shooters (up to 60 percent) have some kind of psychiatric or psychological symptoms, and blah...gun access". Seriously, every mass shooter has indescribable psychological problems and anyone who argues otherwise does too.
#4. Again, Switz has app 50 guns/100 and 30-40 gun relate deaths per 100k. US has 90 guns/100 and 90 deaths per 100K. Higher yes, but the graph presents the information in very exaggerated way. Such it is with graphs and percentages and apples and oranges. I would suggest that the Swiss rate is alarming compared to ours considering the "cultural" differences.
Here's a couple straight up graphs with straight lines with no intention to confuse the reader.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Jun 16, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
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So what you're saying by reporting those numbers is that in 2011 67.7 % of murders were by firearm/related, right?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 16, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
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I did some research in to ccw to see if it was something I may want to do.
I found out ccw holders are more likely to be killed. Maybe because they enter more risky situations or because they are just people willing to take more risks.
Then there's more accidents than successful self defense situations.
And finally many of the people who wrote on blogs or made videos about ccw were NOT the people I'd want carrying. Lots of paranoid people who would carry more than one gun and talk about breaking the law to make their gun accessible from the drivers seat of their car.
I decided it wouldn't make me any safer. And would be such a pain in the butt to have to carry a heavy piece of metal around all the time for the tiny chance I'd ever need it.
I'm not against ccw but it statistics show it doesn't make you safer. You are much better off learning self defense, at least first.
The whole more guns make us safer is just a brain dead argument. Do you want guns in sports stadiums or airplanes?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 16, 2016 - 09:16pm PT
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Terrific. I'm glad to hear you made a choice. I don't blame you one bit.
Now, can I count on your help in preserving the ability for me to make MY choice as well rather than someone else making it for me?
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