Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
|
|
A foolish mental speculator? Gee, thanks Werner! I suppose I could call you a foolish fairy-tale believer, but that wouldn't be very civil, especially considering the high regard you deservedly enjoy around here. Actions speak louder than words, after all. People believe what they want to believe for deeply personal reasons, which is why religion is typically off-limits in polite conversation. But I agree with whomever posted here above saying that if there is a god, it really shouldn't care what people think of it. Behaving compassionately toward our fellows does not require the dictate of a supreme being, however. It's just been too often the case that people have used their God as an excuse to behave like absolute shits to each other.
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
blight
"Yup, I thought that would hurt, hawkeye.
Still, life's tough sometimes. Oh and you can probably kid yourself that a life with no faith, no hope, no peace, no God and no purpose to it has just as much in it as with with all those things, but that's the only person you're kidding.
After all, if there's no truth to it then why were you butt hurt enough to make a snippy reply? "
poor blight. i apologize if i hurt your feelings. i am not butt hurt. i almost added something to that post. something like this...
i believe in god. it took me a while to get there, but i do. i admire those that are fulfilled in their lives whether they have god or not. machs nicht as hitler would have said.
the difference i see in you and i is that i do not need to make my beliefs known, nor do i need to argue so strongly one way or the other as you are here.
why do i believe in god? because of what has happened in my life.
my god may not be your god. i disagree with worshipping a stuck jesus on a cross. i disagree with arguing so vehemently that i am right and you are wrong. i have never travelled your road and you have not travelled mine. i can be a brother to other people who believe differently than i. my relationship with god is not something that i have to share with others, nor is it something that i need to go to church.
i am not certain that the bible we have today is the truth. man has been involved in translating and recording the bible and man is not always righteous or correct. he f*#ks up sometimes.
in short, my faith that i have is good, but i do not presume to know that my life is richer than others who do not share that.
i do not vote republican.
i dont give to churches ever since i built houses 30 yrs ago. i built a house for a guy who handled the LDS chruch money. it was disgusting how much money the guy had.
sorry for the blather, blight.
if you cannot lighten up, then your life is dark dark dark....
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2006 - 03:50pm PT
|
Werner has the SAR stuff down. But aside from that he is nuttier than a fruitcake.
JDF
|
|
Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
|
|
fits in great here then. hehe
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
cintune
I could call you a foolish fairy-tale believer .....
You already have in many posts previous indirectly, not that I give a sh#t.
Those who are mental speculators, those who are fruitive workers, those who are mediators or mystic yogis, cannot explain the science of God.
Do you really want me to go into it ( about your questions )? Do you really want to hear it Juan? I don't think so Juan. I don't believe you really are sincere enough.
You are always trolling, and thus have fallen under the example of the boy who cried wolf to many times.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
|
Its not a troll Werner,
I think many people blindly believe in God out of Fear.
People should question their beliefs.
We cannot all be right. Either I am wrong or you are wrong.
Juan
|
|
cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
|
|
WB: Do you really want me to go into it ( about your questions )?
 If you've got the time, sure. To be clear, however, I have already spent a good bit of time reading the Vedas, likewise the major Kundalini and Mahayana texts. I think they all display a great depth of psychological insight and share a vision of human potential that is inspirational in ways that go far beyond anything found in contemporary Western religion. But I remain atheistic, because I was raised on science instead of mysticism.
What interests me the most, really, is your apparent willingness to lump these traditions together under the generic heading of "God," when you clearly view godhead as Krishna, not Yahweh and/or Christ, which is what most of the other "religious" posters here mean in their devotions. Although there are similarities, such as the Diamond Sutra/Sermon on the Mount, there are also some serious differences that I find very difficult to reconcile. The god of the Old Testament, in particular, seems to be more of a demon than a god, in Vedic terms anyway. But that's what the Gnostics thought, so I suppose there may be a way to bridge over the confusions in those traditions. I'm not saying that fairy-tales can't have significant symbolic meaning.
|
|
cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
|
|
Far Eastern religions in general are far more compatible with a modern scientific worldview than any of the monotheistic faiths, Gnosticism excluded.
|
|
Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
|
|
My father taught me to fear the unknown, especially when it came to what consequences he would implement when I went against him.
I call it the God complex.
I don't know, but I also don't want to find out by crossing the line.
|
|
Ouch!
climber
|
|
"That God has managed to survive the inanities of the religions that do him homage is truly a miraculous proof of his existence." --Ben Hecht ...
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
|
""Can you explain in some other way that the religous beliefs is different in different parts of the world?""
"No, and I'm not going to either because it's a completely irrelevant distinction."
No, it isn't. I live in a secular country and most people around me doesn't belive in God. This is very similar to the faith of people in india and the US.
"There are thousands of different languages in the world, with regional variations. Does that mean that all languages are wrong? Or do they all serve the same purpose almost equally well?"
What are the connection with God?
"First, can you tell me which crual acts you are talking about?"
""Nope. You say that religion is responsible for non-specific "conflicts", I'll keep hitting you with non-specific murders by atheists until you stop it. Don't like the taste of your own medicine? Quit dishing it out then.""
Sorry Blight but I actually mentioned conflicts and bad things that have happened in the name of religion. Once again Irland, Yugoslavia, 9/11, witch burning, the crusades and the aquisition. These are obvious examples and there definitely exist more.
""Proof by concensious is not a valid argument.""
"Of course it is. I've never been to Hong Kong, but a hell of a lot of people tell me it exists. Would it make any sense at all for me to say Hong Kong definitely doesn't exist because I haven't seen it?"
Ok, you have difficulties with logic. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html
Everybody thought the world was flat. Could people prove that it was flat because of the concensous that it was flat?
Most knoweledge about the world have come because people questioned the world view that was dominant at the time. Flat world, earth in the center of the universe, the sun made of iron to name a few scientific. All people that first postulated what turned out to be the correct knoweledge in these cases was very badly handled by the people with the old view.
It's folish to deny the existens of Hong Kong because there exist a lot of evidense that it exist. Movies, pictures, people living there etc. Not because most people belive it exist.
"Cos that's the argument you're using."
One thing here is that I haven't claimed that God doesn't exist. I dont know if he exists or not. I dont belive he exist and I dont belive that it is possibly to prove that he exists or not.
You seems to suggest that he must exist because a lot of people belive he exist. This is not a valid argument.
You suggest that I am missing something in my life because I dont have faith. I disagree with you but I might be wrong.
I belive that you can have a fullfilling happy life without God.
I belive that it is more important what you do in life compared to if you belive in God or not.
|
|
shmikee
Trad climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
|
|
What Is God's Purpose?
MANY people who doubt the existence of an all-powerful, loving God ask: If God does exist, why has he allowed so much suffering and wickedness throughout history? Why does he allow the sorry state of things we see around us today? Why does he not do something to bring an end to war, crime, injustice, poverty, and other miseries that are escalating at an alarming rate in so many countries of the earth?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/19990208/article_02.htm
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2006 - 05:02am PT
|
At one point in time all the universe would fit in the tip of a pin.
So did God say BANG!
Did God know how it would turn out.
14 Billion years ago did God know what he would create?
If a God existed would he let his children suffer so?
Opps. We need a new explination for that.
JDF
|
|
Blight
Social climber
|
|
It's folish to deny the existens of Hong Kong because there exist a lot of evidense that it exist.
Then by that token it would be equally foolish to deny that God exists: there are literally tens of thousands of volumes of theoretical, eye-witness, philosophical, historical and written evidence for God's existence. In fact there are whole bookshops in every city dedicated to almost nothing else.
|
|
Blight
Social climber
|
|
If a God existed would he let his children suffer so?
That's a good point.
But does God create our suffering? Or do we and our fellow men create it?
We have free will; why blame God for wars, famines and suffering which human beings create?
|
|
raymond phule
climber
|
|
""It's folish to deny the existens of Hong Kong because there exist a lot of evidense that it exist. ""
"Then by that token it would be equally foolish to deny that God exists: there are literally tens of thousands of volumes of theoretical, eye-witness, philosophical, historical and written evidence for God's existence. In fact there are whole bookshops in every city dedicated to almost nothing else."
Sorry Blight but I haven't seen a single evidence that God exists. Cant you give me a reference to atleast a single one?
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2006 - 05:42am PT
|
If a God would stand by and let little girls be executed I have no need or time for that God.
Pathetic.
JDF
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2006 - 05:54am PT
|
I think I have figured it out.
We are in Hell.
The question is can we get out?
JDF
|
|
Blight
Social climber
|
|
"Sorry Blight but I haven't seen a single evidence that God exists. Cant you give me a reference to atleast a single one?"
We've already established that you can't see evidence because you're not looking.
So you want me to show you the book? Then you'll demand that I pick it up, find the page, read it out to you then explain it, right?
No dice. If you really want to know, you'll go look it up for yourself. Don't ask me to do your learning for you.
But since you won't bother, read this instead - Luke 16 verses 19-31. It's a story jesus told which describes people like you. See if you can understand it.
http://bibledev.azaz.com/bibleresources/passagesearchresults2.php?passage1=Luke+16&book_id=49&version1=31&tp=24&c=16
|
|
Blight
Social climber
|
|
If a God would stand by and let little girls be executed I have no need or time for that God.
Oh, so it's God's fault because he didn't stop it?
Well, you didn't stop it either.
Does that make it your fault?
What makes more sense, to demand that God stop people from killing each other, or to look at why they're doing it and stop it ourselves?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!