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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
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Jan 30, 2015 - 10:45am PT
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I learned to climb in the 80s and we always walked off if it was an option.
I have followed that logic whenever possible and I have found the RA descent down the gulley to be fine.
But with the sport climbing revolution, now must everything be rapped?
Maybe a streak of day glow reflective paint that follows the rap line all the way down Or maybe a long line from the top that you just clip into and then it lowers you all the way down automatically, with Werner pulling the levers from the Awahnee patio?
Or, as the old saying goes, "you've got two legs!"
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 30, 2015 - 10:48am PT
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didn't the Gunsight have a set of fluorescent dots painted on it at one point to indicate the way?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 30, 2015 - 10:53am PT
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I'm just going to hang some of those solar rechargeable lights from my garden/walkway up there. Just need to replace the rechargeable AA battery once a year or so, and you'll never miss a station and be able to see how to thread the anchor correctly.
Why did it take me so long to think of that one. I've even got some that have a tiffany-esque globe on them...for the high class climbers. The heads come off the stakes easily, fairly waterproof too. Viola!
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:03am PT
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It was just posted on the other thread that the accident happened 1 rap down and was probably a mistake on Cody's part.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:05am PT
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Eggs-C-Lent Bomz.
+1 For spare shoes at the top. Boxes of 'em.
+1 Boxes of topos at every rap station, and along the route wherever the direction changes.
+1 Remote controls (rented at the valet) that have a button to light up the flashers on the anchors of the rap route.
One just never knows what one is going to need. One.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:12am PT
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We should probably just let the valley locals handle this.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:13am PT
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What do you think this is, a popcorn stand?
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:30am PT
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While we're optimizing the route, could I request Sherpas and some O2 bottles? I'm not getting any younger.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:34am PT
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You don't need T to climb Royal Arches. I did it when the rotten log was the scariest pitch and the walk down North Dome Gully was part of the experience, a long day with a total body workout.
Since then I've seen too many expert climbers killed rappelling to think 19-21 rappels for a noob route is a good idea.
Kudos to Roger Brown however, for his promised work on the anchors this coming summer.
P.S. No Homo Huddles back in the day either since that was considered a girl's climb.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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prostitues and cocaine
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 30, 2015 - 11:42am PT
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Modern climbing has benefited enormously from engineering solutions---ropes and belay devices are obvious examples. But with those benefits has come the idea that there are or should be engineering solutions to plain old inconvenience, as well as bad judgement, bad luck, fatigue, lack of preparation, and the almost limitless list of other human failings that make climbing risky and uncertain.
From the new perspective, climbing is less about the climber and more about how to engineer the climb to be pleasant and safe. The reflectors are just the latest wrinkle in the ongoing conflict about what climbing is and should be. In this conflict, "safety" is a cudgel used to beat anyone who thinks that risk is an appropriate and perhaps even essential ingredient in (trad) climbing.
Meanwhile, absolutely nothing will keep the noobs Werner describes from getting into trouble.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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Ain't no 21 rappels. Unless you are rapping down a 3rd class walk. Which I have seen people doing.
11 double rope rappels or 15-16 (Clint added a needed station under 10) single rope rappels.
I'd agree a few stations could be fixed up / moved. I know the last one under 11 (for a single rope rappel) had old bolts.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
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I really like the slightly risky 2 hour walk down North Dome Gully, vs. more rappel deaths. 21 rappels vs walking for 2 hours down North Dome Gully?
When I did the route last spring there was no way I was walking off. I didn't trust my left foot enough at the time to safely navigate the north gully without killing myself not to mention walking was harder than climbing at the time..
Not saying there needs to be a rap route installed for accessibility reasons on every climb, just that the rap route enabled me to accomplish said goal in my post-injury comeback tour. ;)
If you can't get off this climb safely then you need to up your skills.
I agree with this. I started out as a gym noob with no mentor, but I knew enough from my experiences almost killing myself in the mountains on a snowboard, to not get in over my head too quickly.
Too many people are getting in over their heads before they have the basics dialed.
Because you are truly just inviting more inexperienced climbers up there.
As Eric says. Comfortizing it will make it worse. Optimizing it would make it better. Scratch a little arrow pointing right on the hangers at 15 on clint's topo. Put a new station directly below 15 29m down so if people do mess up, there's an anchor there.
And do something about the crappy tree anchor at 4 on clints topo. When we did it I did not like the looks of it or the tat on it at all, so we built a gear anchor in the crack and my partner led out to the bolts.
Otherwise it went smooth, we did it in 10 raps with two 70's and i found it quite fun, but i've always loved rapping.
The key was we took the first shuttle from camp 4 and made good time. Until we ran into noobs on the traverse at which point the line formed and it dragged on forever.
The last pitch was soaked so we didn't even think about it. I wouldn't dream of trying it for my first time in the dark. At that point I would bivy for sure...
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
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I posted this in the Cody Byers thread....
Last night I bumped into Eric Swanson, Cody's partner that tragic day, and got the details....
They were using double ropes and had just made the first rapp. They made a single rope rap to avoid getting their rope stuck in the notorious bushes just a few raps down from the top. I wasn't too clear on what happened next, but Eric said he wasn't paying attention when Cody began to descend again, first. He said that one end of the rope slipped through Cody's ATC and the rope went whizzing through the anchor and Cody fell with both ropes. So, I am speculating that Cody may have had the other rope coiled on him, leaving both ropes still tied together, but perhaps he grabbed onto the wrong tail.
Eric was stuck at the belay for about an hour and a half until a following party came down and he rapped with them.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 30, 2015 - 12:37pm PT
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Soooooooo.
(said in a German accent.)
I see.
All the folks that rappel, have likely not climbed pitch 16, since the rappel anchors start at the top of pitch 15.
Back in the Pleistocene, when I climbed Royal Arches twice in May, pitch 16 was wet, sandy, covered in part with pine needles, and had virtually no protection. I have seen references to people dying on it.
When I looked for beta on it today, I see a single bolt has been added, and unchanged conditions.
You dooodes are missing the most exciting lead on the whole frickin climb. I remember being terrified, both leading and following pitch 16, because either way, if you slip, you are likely going to take a huge fall over a drop-off.
Maybe, just maybe, a little more fixed protection could be added to pitch 16, vs more rappel anchors, signs (multi-lingual & in Braille, I should hope) lights, arrows, and guides?
Then maybe, just maybe, folks could walk off and not die rappeling?
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Sheets
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 30, 2015 - 01:36pm PT
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You dooodes are missing the most exciting lead on the whole frickin climb. I remember being terrified, both leading and following pitch 16, because either way, if you slip, you are likely going to take a huge fall over a drop-off.
I fell while leading this traversing pitch. At the time it was raining & the combination of moss & pine needles & wetness made the traverse quite spicy.
The fall wasn't bad. I cheese grated down the slab before stopping at a little pine needle covered ledge just before where the angle steepens a lot. If I remember correctly, I believe I placed a cam somewhere after the bolt that also stopped me from chucking off the steep section. Anyway, it wasn't too bad.
As to the larger point, Eric Gabel said it all.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 30, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
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I don't remember a drop off under that final pitch slab, except maybe way down where I don't think I would've ended up. I didn't enjoy that slab at all. An easy, dirty, traverse.
One of the parties I helped rap down the arches was led by one of those "the more complexity I add to everything the safer it is" types.
There were in front of us at the raps and I could tell by the clustf*#kedess that it would take them forever to rap, plus they were uncertain where to go so we offered to rap with them.
He refused to rap on an EDK so we did a bulky knot.
He setup a prusik above his belay device because "if the belay loop blows a friction knot below the device won't help". So in order to descend he had to move the prusik up and down by his belly button. With the weight of the rope and such a dumb backup he was struggling and sweating. Or as my friend referred to it "the jerk off method of rappelling"
At one point he was telling us where the rap route goes because the topo said it, and I said no I've done this rap plenty of times it's the other way. Of course I was right. My friend couldn't take it anymore at this point as the guy was driving him crazy. We got to a 3rd class walk down and he wanted to rap and at that point we went over the topo with him gave him some pointers and left him to his own devices.
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Climber Joe
Trad climber
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Jan 30, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
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Ooh I still remember the traverse vividly. Always wondered how bad it would be to slip there. Thanks for describing it.
On another note: Thanks Clint for that extra bolt near the end of the rap route. Especially when you're tired at the end of the day it helps a lot and also lets you avoid getting the rope (too) wet.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Jan 30, 2015 - 02:03pm PT
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Pitch 16: While it looks like the obvious way to go, the long, low unprotected traverse to the forest is off route and may be as hard as 5.9 when wet. The real route stays very high, taking you thru some class 3 blocks followed by a short, well protected 5.4 traverse across the slippery water course and to the forest.
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