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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 29, 2015 - 08:32pm PT
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Time to start a thread on the issue of the Royal Arches Rappel. I got stuck on this route as a new climber myself. I remember very well climbing up and looking at webbing tied on bushes and going man I sure wouldn't rap off that! Then later that night, somehow we were! I'm not so sure of the actual rap route because we rapped the route. It took a long time and we didn't have a headlamp, only a low on fluid lighter. I suggest for this route only, since its such a neebie go to , to paint the rap hangers with a reflective paint....only for rap anchors. Then you could flash your headlamp around and find em. Like looking for your tent with the reflective zipper end at night in the woods. I sure don't have all the answers, maybe none, but I'm just moving the off topic stuff from Cody's thread. Anybody??
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 08:39pm PT
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That's a good idea but I doubt the durability of paint. I'm thinking something like attaching a bike reflector. Also on blind raps with anchors off the fall line adding a clear marker of some sort indicating the line of rappel to the next best anchor.
Below is the best Topo and notes I have seen of the rap route by Clint Cummins. wstmrnclmr may be heading there soon to make some changes and cleanup some off route stuff. If so I hope he will make some notes and suggestions for some good next steps if worthwhile.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 08:42pm PT
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Originally posted by Clint Cummins
This is my topo of the rap route.
It sounds like Tony is proposing adding an anchor 90' or so below the big tree at (15).
It might help somebody, but be sure there is a series of anchors within 90' of each other below that also.
Another option would be to place a bolted anchor right of the tree, directly above the 5.2 downclimb corner.
Then people should rap down the corner instead of the slab below the tree.
Many people are unsure about solo downclimbing this corner.
Another option would be to put a sign on the tree: "rappel down the corner, not the face".
There are several areas where the risk is increased, but a person could also die by going past any anchor and going off the end of the rope.
The places which I think have increased risk are:
finding (3). My first trip down, I went past it and had to batman back up the rope.
reaching (4). I do it by rapping to a corner and downclimbing 15' to the anchor on a dying tree. There is also a bolted anchor out to the left, but if you use it, your rope could hang up in blocks up and right of you.
(11). The ant tree, first non-bolted anchor. Might be confusing to some people.
(12). Short and not directly visible from (11). One time, Roger and I didn't see it and continued down and left in the ramp to a small tree anchor. Then down to a wet ramp with a poor bush anchor.
(13). Not visible from 12. Somewhat visible in the daylight from the edge of the wall when on rap. Hard to commit to in the dark.
(14). Sometimes there are slings around a tree, sometimes people just downclimb the 5.0.
(15). The big tree with slings. If you go straight down the face below, I'm not sure how far it is to the closest anchor. This is where Meghan had her accident. Instead, I just downclimb the corner. It's 5.2.
(17). This anchor is not immediately visible from above. And you reach it by downclimbing a 4th class slab.
(18). I placed this anchor (my own bolts and hangers). Last spring I heard one of hangers was missing, so I put a new one on it.
(21). I have trouble finding this anchor in the daylight. Usually I downclimb to the top of the first pitch chimney and rap from slings on a tree. Ed mentioned using the anchor for Astrospam, but this anchor may be difficult to locate from above.
Many of these risks occur because there is no direct line of sight to the next anchor.
These can't be solved by adding new bolted anchors, unless you want to create 20' rappels.
One possibility would be to bolt tags or plaques/arrows to the wall in the line to the next anchor.
And as Matt said, even if the anchors were all easy to find, people could still die if they go past them, or make some error like not having the rope fully through their ATC, or not clipping into the anchor correctly.
My personal theory on rappel safety is to keep it simple, and reduce the number of steps involved. I don't use a prusik backup or knots in the ends of the ropes. I don't simulrap. I take care when pulling the rope to send it in a particular direction. I prefer using a single 60m biweave rope to rap this route.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2015 - 08:47pm PT
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Thanks for that Climbski2 ....
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
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Were that Clint's topo was in the guidebook! But unfortunately it's not.......The problem is the guidebook has a major flaw and the trick is to fix the flaw(s) in such a way that climbers using the guide or the errant rap find the fixes in an obvious way while rapping because there is no practical way to inform them (I suspect that the vast majority of climbers doesn't read supertopo but that they do use the guidebook).
Clint outlines what I want to do at that specific rap. As to the marking of rap stations, Could I suggest the use of road reflectors like those used on freeways? The rectangular ones that can be seen from both sides ( rappellers could see from above and below if passed).
Edit: There are muliple anchor option as Clint points out but they aren't in the guidebook. Once again, people follow the guidebook and thus the error in the guidebook. For those that don't follow the guidebook, they will go wherevere as they would on any climb where they don't use s guide. My fix is addressing the guidebook flaw.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
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Sounds good. I'm already starting to research reflectors with ready made brackets that can easily be added to a bolt. Have to have dull/rounded edges though.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:07pm PT
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Glue them on next to bolt?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
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mebbe, but I like the idea of them being easily removable/replaceable as needed over time. However having them be flush is important for not getting battered by pulled ropes and whatever. Not sure what the best solution will be yet.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
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True but it happens almost every night in the summer. See it almost every time I look in the evenings.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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I appreciate that Royal Arches is a really popular tourist route in the valley.
I had a great time climbing it twice in the month of May back in the mid-70's, when the dreaded "rotten-log pitch" was still the biggest thrill.
We of course, walked off the North Dome Gully route both times without incident, even thought the first walk off entailed barely making it to the Mountain Room for a night-cap before closing.
Of course, there is that final nasty, slimy, pine needle covered, and frightening little pitch #16 at the top ----that is only rated 5.4. People have died on it.
Supertopo says this about the North Dome Gully.
3) North Dome Gully
If you have North Dome Gully wired, it’s the fastest descent from Royal Arches. It takes about 2 hours if you’re familiar with the descent, but can take 4 hours if it’s your first time and you get off route
I suspect a lot of wet season parties don't mess with the slime pitch # 16,& Clint's rappel topo shows the first rappel starting before pitch #16.
In my old mind, it makes more sense to put some new bolts on pitch #16 to protect early season & wet weather climbers finishing the climb. Perhaps improvements could also be made to the North Dome Gully trail.
What I am seeing discussed for marking & making the rappel stations harder to miss, reads as inappropriate to me for a mountain environment, and will likely be nixed by the park service.
I really like the slightly risky 2 hour walk down North Dome Gully, vs. more rappel deaths. 21 rappels vs walking for 2 hours down North Dome Gully?
Lots of people are not thinking about their survival odds, on how they choose to exit Royal Arches.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
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Yeah I am concerned that any reflectors not be visible from the valley. Might have to make it so they are only reflective from above. I figure just do it without asking since it is a gray area. Just make sure to do it really well, effective and inobtrusive so it is hard to have a good argument against a done deal.
I've always done the NDG.. as I like the hike anyway and don't consider it that bad.
Anyway these or something like them attached to a very small bracket might work well.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
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Reflectors are a poor choice IMO and are not in line with traditional climbing ethics. I think it would be a tacky eyesore and set a bad precedent. Is this a joke? Did April come early?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
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If I do it, it will be no bigger than the bolt hanger and only visible from the direction of rappel from above. Easily removable if people hate em.
Certainly less obtrusive than webbing or cairns.
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The Alpine
climber
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:33pm PT
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You've got to be kidding me. You guys seriously think reflectors are a good idea??
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
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If I can make a reflector setup much less obtrusive than a cairn or webbing. About or less than the size of many bolt hangers and only visible from above on rappel would folks have any objection?
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The Alpine
climber
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:36pm PT
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Not to disrespect the recently deceased, but he didn't die because he was rappelling at night. He died because he rapped off the ends of his ropes.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:38pm PT
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Agreed. the reflectors have gotten a lot more posts than the real key things that have been considered. Such as cleaning up off route slings and anchors and perhaps adding a station or two in better places.
Any of this may or may not have prevented the recent tragedy. I have no idea the situation leading to his rapping off his rope. However I don't see that as a good argument for not making these rapps as quality, simple and nonconfusing as reasonably possible in all conditions.
The only reason I keep going on about the reflectors is I am intrigued by the possibility of making it work effectively without causing more problems than it solves or being a major PITA to do or be any sort of eyesore.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:41pm PT
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I've walked off every time, no drama, but I'm all limber like a cat and like hiking : /
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ablegabel
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
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There is a rappel topo in the Super Topo guide. There is an older version in the Donny Reid Giude, before all the intermediate stations were added. There will be an updated version in the new guide. PLEASE stop dumbing down the climbs to the climbers level. Climbers need to step up to the level of the climb! It is horrible that people have died on this, truly horrible. But to contiuosly trying to improve this is not the solution. THERE IS A WALK OFF. People used this for decades with out too many problems, and yes people died on that too. People die on the Half Dome cables. People die on the mist trail. It sucks. But glueing reflectors on an outdoor climb, seriously, what the hell are you thinking? What part of ethics does this fall into? That is not a wilderness experience. That is a gym experiance. If you can't get off this climb safely then you need to up your skills. You will never stop people from rappelling off the end of there rope. I've come close and most people I now have had a close call or story to tell, too. Be safe, come prepared, check your partner, do your home work. There is plenty of info all over the Internet for this route. I would hate to loose some one I know or care about climbing. But this is not the solution. Because you are truly just inviting more inexperienced climbers up there. This is a climb where a lot of people get there experiance. They learn to get up earlier, bring a head lamp, stay on route, check on how to get off, and come prepared. If nothing else, don't be so lazy and just do the walk off. It's like a freeway these days and not the epic that it used to be.
I know every body won't agree with my opinion, but there it is.
 Eric Gabel
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Climber Joe
Trad climber
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Jan 29, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
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I've rapped down RA nearly a dozen times, sometimes at night. The scariest thing about it is, that on some rap stations you got at most two very old bolts. I'd love to see some upgrades to 3/8 inchers! The other big danger is losing rope to trees, but what can you do? it's a risky activity.
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