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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 25, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
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Kab, what About wolves at the crag?
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Betty Uno
Mountain climber
Colorado
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Apr 25, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
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That is disgusting, the part about the dog ripping up the goslings.
Perhaps next time you could take videos of the dog, and the dead young birds, and the guy saying "It's no big deal," and post it on youtube and elsewhere.
I say next time, because right now, as we speak, some other "nature lover" is letting his dog do the same thing, and it's spring, nesting season.
It used to be people respected spring and did not hunt or otherwise disturb the critters raising their young.
I know the one time I said to a guy standing directly under a sign saying "PLEASE KEEP YOUR DOG ON A LEASH IN THIS WILD LIFE PRESERVE" that he should, indeed, keep his dog on a leash, he snarled back; "What are you? The dog police?"
Believe me I give not one sh#t, so to speak, about dog sh#t. Just don't try to put it in my compost pile is all I ask. Yes, I have met someone so dumb they thought dog sh#t went in a compost pile for a vegetable garden, which is why I mention it. They ARGUED with me about it. LOL.
What I have seen in the spring, is that a dog turned loose can hunt out nests and young things and decimate them in very rapid order.
Then after the "fun romp" the owner puts the dog on the leash for the rest of the day, and thinks nothing of it.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Apr 25, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
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Ok. I'm here to have my limbs ripped off and my dog killed: I am the dog owner in question.
Here is the story and you can pass you comments as you feel fit.
I would start by saying that I have climbed well over 1000 days and 3/4 of those with one of 2 dogs that I have had over a 28 year climbing period. I have never in many hundreds of days had a dog eat any live animal or bird or bite any person. Not even a squirrel or mouse. Nothing. With this in mind I brought my family dog (who lives with 3 small kids)and let him kick around while I climbed. What I have done so many times. I heard all the noise from the geese but I kept looking over and could not see anything and figured it was mating season or something? A little later I saw two small chicks tumble down the hill side and then saw my dog on a ledge where they had come from. I got him immediately under control and watched what happened. The parents guided them up the hill and out of sight. I considered it a close shave and tied him up. Later I ran down to use the head and took him with me under voice control thinking all was as well as it could be. When I came back up the guy who started the thread and his 2 friends told me all was not well and he had killed 4 chicks. He was furious (I don't blame him). I went and inspected the carnage and found 2 dead chicks. I tied him up. At that point there was not much else to be done. I suppose I could have left but other than a token of apology it would not have changed anything. I finished the day of climbing. My dog sat at the base in the sun but that was no big deal. he's sat in the sun at rock bases his whole life.
I feel terrible because:
I was responsible for my dog killing wildlife.
The incident was very upsetting to other people there.
It's the kind of incident that could screw up access if the management find out about it.
I spoke at length with the CRAGS representative. For me it is a regrettable live and learn incident the likes of which has never happened before. The Quarry is a different situation than other locations with geese nesting all over and apparently in pretty easy to access spots. I've seen a number of dogs of climbers and hikers off leash and never thought much of it until now. Personally, if he can't run around and play there is no point bringing him so he can stay at home. Most of my climbing is at empty crags middle of the week and he usually the only dog around and just kicks back.
There are a lot of people who dislike any dogs at the crag and that's fine to hold that view. I don't like it myself when there are a bunch of dogs at a small crag like Gold Wall, but most of the time it's a very mellow scene with a friend and a dog and it's been that way for years and probably will be in the future. I spend a lot of time in the back country running at dusk and he keeps the mountain lion's at bay.
Anyway, it's a bummer all round but not one that will be repeated by me at least
Aidan
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Apr 25, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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How about dogs on top of the crag?
My dog met me at the top of a six pitch route a few weekends ago.
Yes, I leave her at the base. She has proven to not be a nuisance.
If others don't want to see a dog out at the "crag", fine.
We have the right to be there just like you have the right to do what you want.
If it bums your trip, split. When a loud group shows up, or any number of things I don't like when I'm out climbing, I split.
Easy as that.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 25, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
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Very brave post Aidan. It's very clear you regret it, but you may still want to offer a clear apology to the OP, etc.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 25, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
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Not so easy when the dog is a big husky threatening to rip my face off because his slave human left packs at the base of the climb next to my pack which i can not retrieve without risking bodily harm....
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Apr 25, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
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What about bolted dog anchors at the base of all climbs? that should cover it.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 26, 2013 - 12:27am PT
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treez, nice!
Don't pretend you dog h8ers haven't left your fair share of steaming piles in the woods... and ass wipe... and YOU knew better. Besides, my dog ate far more HUMAN sh#t from areas like Maple, AF, Joe's, Happies, Rifle, RRG, etc than he ever left. How much feces have YOU cleaned up from a crag? Exactly NONE.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 26, 2013 - 12:33am PT
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Besides, my dog ate far more HUMAN sh#t from areas like Maple, AF, Joe's, Happies, Rifle, RRG, etc than he ever left. Give that pooch a smooch. lol
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 26, 2013 - 12:35am PT
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I live in auburn, and run in the canyon past the quarry many times each week. What a sh#t show the climbers have brought to the area. Dogs chasing/killing geese is definitely worth a call to the rangers. I forgot how sweet it was to have the place off limits. Climbers will get it shut down again soon and the locals can't wait.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
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Commands all dogs should know, in no particular order;
OFF
Leave it
Those 2 cover a bunch, including not jumping on people or bothering others things, dogs and or wildlife.
No Dirt! Stops digging and playing dogs from kicking it up.
Back, as in stay behind me going up hill on scree or talus
Go, as in go ahead of me going down scree
Care-ful, meaning watch were you step, loose rocks or a cliff
STOP! Might just keep your dog from getting killed by any number of things.
Pee-pee &
Poo-poo. Yup, my dog knew these and I would ask him to go at the trail head. Give him a few minutes to get it out. If I caught him dumping, usually within 100' of leaving the car, I'd yell at him, "OFF the trail, bad dog!" And he'd bound into the brush and finish while I kicked it off the trail making yucky sounds, or "Gross!" Most times, he would go off trail on his own. Like others have mentioned, poop is everywhere, I only pick it up if it is in a high-use area. With a 100lb dog though, management was a better option.
And of course the normal
Sit. Not cower or belly flop. If this happens, your being too rough.
Stay. For as long as necessary. This one takes lots of practice. Make it a game and make it a REALLY BIG DEAL of how good they have been.
Down. Not lie down, 2 word commands are confusing, also do not use down to stop jumping up dogs, use OFF.
Come. Always, always praise a dog for coming to you, no matter WHAT they have just been up to. At the very most, say nothing, clip on the leash and be done with it)
Heel
Don't EVER let them chase anything live. Toys, yes. If your dog has ever killed anything, they will never be reliable off leash again. Learned this one the hard way.
All of these commands should be taught as hand signals pretty much right away.
Drop on recall is another important one that can be made into a fun game.
Dogs & packs. Dogs left with an owners pack will almost always guard it. Put your pack and your dog well away from the base of routes in a nice spot for the dog to hang so he's not tempted to wander. Even if you are just TRing or single pitching it.
If your not willing to put the time and energy into teaching your dog to be a well behaved member of society, don't have a dog, get a cat.
Dogs really are much happier when they know exactly what is expected of them.
Feel free to PM me with questions.
Edited to add one more;
I forgot about teaching them to bark on command. I use the hand signal of someone yakking, no voice. Counter-intuitivly, this is a great command to teach barkers. Because, once they get there is a command for barking, they figure out there is a command to STOP barking pretty quick.
Quiet. said in a very low voice. Don't ever yell at a barking dog, you sound like your barking too and they won't get it unless you resort to beating them. (ugh)
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Most humans don't know what half of that means.
My dog knows: "NO!" Which rhymes with "GO!" Which basically means stop whatever you are doing and get the fuk out of here. I can't think of any circumstance where anyone else would ever need to give my dog any other command.
He also knows: "FUK OFF!"
and "HEY" or a big arm wave which means follow me, look at me, me, me, me. He is deaf, so the sign language is coming in handy these days.
He stays with a firm point to his current location.
and "OTHER SIDE" for when I am riding my bike and I want him... yep, on the other side. Took a couple times to figure out he needs to cross behind me, but we worked through it.
I gave up on trying to make him come a long time ago.
Oh, and my dog has kill numerous squirrels, birds, lizards, rabbits, and mice... so has my car. He is a hunting dog, that is what WE breed them to do for centuries. Hardly seems fair to try and make them stop now.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
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^^^eye roll
yup, problem humans
hunting dogs aren't pets
dogs that kill wildlife belong on a leash or left at home.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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You do realize that the gray wolf is the common ancestor to all domestic dogs, right? Life feeds on life.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Frackin' mutts are using up the oxygen at the bolt parks. Killem all.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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But Locker, iffn I stay home how will I see ya?
WOOF!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Can I take my dog to the woods?
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Cookie enjoys a day at the crag.
No dog haters here...good!
Lets eat!
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Stoney I'm a dog person, these guys go with me most places.I'm a 100% responsible for them & their action.
This is not about climbing.
You should have called the police or rangers immediately.
Canada Geese are protected by the "Migratory bird treaty". The fines & jail time are heavy. Just being caught with their feathers is a crime.
This was not a dog problem. It is a human problem.
Aidan, I give you lots of credit for coming forward. We all make mistakes.
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