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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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Truly climbski2.
The solution to the war on drugs might also reduce wanton violence;
Endeavor to create a world that people want to be a part OF rather than escape from.
If you really want to make the effort to reduce needless tragedy make it harder to get a driver's license, and make texting while driving a class A felony.
It would save more lives than if all the guns in the country evaporated.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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Don Paul,
they are not illegal and have practical civilian uses.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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It is quite possible that a proper health-care system would have stopped this problem before it occurred.
In my mind the first priority of a nation is to safeguard it's citizens.
Most immediately think of Military and law-enforcement as proper ways to do this.. and they are.
However in this modern world there is another and MORE effective way to do this. That should be the first and highest priority of a modern nation.
Ensuring access to proper healthcare. Basic civics concept here.
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Les
Trad climber
Bahston
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
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Regarding the likelihood of anyone in the audience, or this forum for that matter, actually being able to stop the shooter by using their concealed carry weapon, consider this:
http://firearmusernetwork.com/2011/06/10/fletc-research-project-shows-its-shooting-training-is-a-bust/
If the folks who have just received 8-10 weeks of pretty intensive training fare very poorly at this, in situations probably not even closely approximating what occurred in that theater last night, I think it HIGHLY dubious to think that even a small fraction of people out there with concealed weapons (with the exception of some combat vets perhaps) would fare any better.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Jul 20, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
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II only I had been there... I might have saved some lives (baring that I was not shot first).... I would have drawn, fired, and killed the shooter... I would not miss that shot.
Condolences to the survivors of the deceased.
EDIT
Les
I respect the skill of shooting and train in manner to honor and live up to the responsibility.
Your weakness is not mine
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
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"If the folks who have just received 8-10 weeks of pretty intensive training fare very poorly at this, in situations probably not even closely approximating what occurred in that theater last night, I think it HIGHLY dubious to think that even a small fraction of people out there with concealed weapons (with the exception of some combat vets perhaps) would fare any better."
+1
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
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How much training do you think the guy who shot up the movie house had?
More or less than eight weeks?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
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Yeah, climbing lets you know how you do in the clinches.
Some people fall apart under stress while others are at their best.
I know that anger and adrenaline make me even more accurate with a handgun.
It actually amounts to a considerable disadvantage most of the time.
If I had hit the deck seeing the exits totally blocked and had brass falling on me I'd be at the shooters 3 or 4 o'clock. If he was turning left I might have a chance of putting a pill in his ear.
(Contrary to Hollywood you don't want to put it in the middle of the forehead, you want to hit the "apricot" level with eyes and ears in the center.)
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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Agree with DMT. One other point: where did this guy get the bullet proof vest and tear gas? AFAIK those are not things you can get licenses for. Hopefully when they interrogate this guy he will give up the people who sold him that stuff.
Pretty scary that some people think that bullet proof vests should be illegal (as far as I know, you can buy them without a license). Certainly understand people thinking that gun possession should be more limited, but not even being able to buy a tool to limit damage when someone shoots you? Whacky, hopefully would be found to be unconstitutional, but who knows if Obama gets more on the Supreme Court.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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wow Ron, was that your target?
you should be proud to post how good of a firearms expert you are
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~kief~
Trad climber
state of Awakening
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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Tragic.
I am with Karo...guns suck......we suck.
clint eastwood sucks
Creates a vicious cycle,when ones sees this sad story.....
and runs and hugs their guns..instead of their kids.
Sooo many statistics on how way more likely you carry advocates are
to accidently shoot yourself,kids get a hold of it,use it in road rage...ect,ect...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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So why didn't Republican Bush sign into law allowing concealed holders to carry
in National Parks?
He had eight years to do so.
President Obama signed that into law not long after taking the oath of office.
Thanks, President Obama, for allowing me to carry into national parks.
And thanks for extending gun ownership rights from the Federal level.
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Les
Trad climber
Bahston
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
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"Les
I respect the skill of shooting and train in manner to honor and live up to the responsibility.
Your weakness is not mine "
GhoulweJ -- so you train in a highly choatic environment, with smoke and tear gas filling a dark room, panicked bystanders rushing for exits and falling in bloody heaps crying and screaming, with a shootout scene in an action movie playing in full Dolby stereo surround-sound, all while a guy in body armor with multiple automatic weapons is unloading multiple rounds? You must have access to some kind of training facility!
yeah, MY weakness. Funny, I don't recall saying I was one of those FLETC trainees who put rounds on the target a mere 19% of the time FROM THREE FEET AWAY in only a mildly stressful situation.
You didn't read the article I posted, did you?
Edited to add: For the record, I support peoples' rights (with restrictions) to carry weapons and am full-time LEO authorized to carry in all 50 states under LEOSA.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
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Piton Ron - you're right about the vests. I looked into this about 10 years ago and was told they were illegal weapons. My mistake. As for tear gas I never really wanted any but will take your word for it.
Blahblah, you misunderstood me. I didnt say I thought bulletproof vests should be illegal. I wanted to buy one but was told by some gun shop guy that they were illegal. I spend a lot of time in dangerous place, but now I see they may be covered by export controls so international travel may be a problem.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
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if i were proud id show ya a fifty cent sized dead center punch(5 rounds) from my fiddy cal front stuffer off hand at fifty yards in a competition..
oh, I think you show your pride just talking about your skills above
sarcasm, ron?
heavens no, I just like how you turned this thread into telling us all about your shooting skills
and gave us some tips also
thanks!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:16pm PT
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Let me guess; 43 more times to shoot a household member than a burglar?
Know where those numbers came from?
The "author" went looking for a city to prove his point.
Found one where crime was low but a huge plant closure prompted a suicide epidemic.
Took it as the norm.
Now everybody who wants to believe the bogus numbers quote them as gospel without knowing the source.
Truth is far more civilians commit justifiable homicide than cops.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
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so Ron, you think President Obama got "paid" to allow concealed carry in parks?
really?
who do you think paid him off to sign that bill into law?
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~kief~
Trad climber
state of Awakening
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
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GUN violence problem....guns'll fix that.
stop & think.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
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Blahblah, you misunderstood me. I didnt say I thought bulletproof vests should be illegal. I wanted to buy one but was told by some gun shop guy that they were illegal.
OK, thanks for the clarification.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Jul 20, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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Crazy fukers problem.
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