did obama just throw the election ? (OT - Repost)

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Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 14, 2012 - 12:53pm PT
Ron

WHY else would such a statement be broadcast at this time?

Because Biden opened his mouth and it put Obama on a spot to make a statement...period

Why didnt he do something when he had a majority?

He's hasn't felt the people were ready for it yet. Public opinion has been evolving toward acceptance but they aren't there yet and it's one of the big issues the Christain right froths about most

not rocket science.

Peace

Karl
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
AGAIN

WHY didn't the Republicans "do anything about it" under Bush for eight years?


We all know the answer: they are flat out opposed to same sex marriage

It is even in their party platform: They want another big ass government LAW to be passed banning same sex marriage in every state, even if the state wants it.


So why is it always up to the Democrats to do what the Republicans will not do?

Ron favors states rights on this issue.

Therefore, Ron supports the President's and the Democratic party position on this.

Thank you Ron for being much more open minded than your fellow conservatives!


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
I support states' rights, too.

Does that mean we can decide whether or not we want kids from our state being sent to federally-created wars?

If so, and the state chooses to participate in a war that I don't support, I would consider that an infringement on my individual rights.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
What if they all decide to participate in the 'industrial military complex'? Surely there will be plenty of citizens who disagree with such a war...maybe as much as 49% of them...wouldn't that be an infringement on their individual rights?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
move to a new state...


pretty good!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
That's great, Ron, but the point is that even if states' rights were more to one's liking, there would surely be issues and directions taken that one might not agree with (i.e. gay marriage). And even if a state's direction is to your liking, there could be as many as 49% of others who don't agree, and are subject to the 'tyranny of the majority'. How is that better?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 14, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
dead brave men/women


to be brave, men and women must be alive.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
Many of you will not agree, since you don’t believe in GOD, nor accept the Bible as The inspired word of GOD. But he does exist, and The Holy Bible is his word. His Laws are the moral Laws of the Universe. Always has been and always will be. The Word of GOD has always existed. Read 1st John in the NT. It does not matter what Man does, what Laws he passes or not. GOD’s laws are the only Laws we really need. There will be a time in Earth’s future when we return to GOD’s Laws 100% with nothing added or taken away. They are perfect.

On a careful reading and understanding of GOD’s Word, The Holy Bible, we get GOD’s plan for marriage an institution that GOD created for man. It’s GOD’s creation not man’s. It doesn’t allow for homosexual/gay marriage. That is an abomination to GOD. Also it does not allow for divorce, nor remarriage, except for the passing away of a spouse. This is GOD’s divine plan. Divorce, and then remarriage, gay marriage, are all inventions of fallible man. There are eternal consequences for doing so and being in these states of sin, eternal separation from GOD on The Judgment Day.

Below you can see that a man (Desiderius Erasmus ,1466-1536, the Dutch humanist. He was not a Reformed Christian) purposefully changed the original Greek Text of the New Testament while making new English translations for the Protestant Reformation (the original teaching of the Catholic Church had the issue of marriage and divorce correct, GOD doesn’t allow it) to falsely allow for divorce. He had a wicked and deceitful intent to do so. He hated the Catholic Church teaching which was based on the Word of GOD and that forbade divorce and remarriage. We now are fully aware of this purposeful deceit and have gone back to the original Greek manuscripts far older than what he used and we see the original intent. GOD doesn’t allow for divorce even if the married couple has fornicated. There is a passage in the NT that illustrates this. “Do you not know that a harlot and her husband are one?” Doesn’t matter that one is sleeping around on the other spouse. They are still husband and wife and there is no cause for divorce. It is called forgive and forget. People screw up all the time. No reason to abandon one another, because we all sin. Nothing breaks the marriage covenant, and the becoming one, except for the natural passing away of one of the spouses. As they both live they are still husband and wife, no matter what. Take a glass of red grape juice and mix it with a glass of blue grape juice and you get purple grape juice, something entirely new. There is no undoing this. A married couple is very much the same. They become one on a physical and spiritual level. There is no undoing this as they both shall live.



THE BIBLICAL TEACHING ON DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE
Leslie McFall
15 October, 2008
http://morechristlike.com/documents/DivorceMcFallview.pdf

The Church of God received the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ directly from Him in oral form, and the Apostles and Jesus’ followers had time, during His earthly ministry, to becertain what He meant and to work out the practical implications of His teaching on divorce and remarriage before the Gospels were written down.Out of their personal interaction with the Lord Jesus came a clear, unambiguous application that was never seriously challenged for the first 450 years by any authoritative Christian
teacher/leader.1 As a result, a definite pattern of behaviour characterised the whole Christian Church whereby divorce was not permitted for any reason, not even adultery. The so-called‘Pauline Privilege’ (1 Cor 7:15-16) was interpreted to mean that if an unbelieving partner took
the initiative to separate (or get a civil divorce) from a Christian partner, then the Christian partner must stay single in the hope that the unbelieving partner would come back again(even if the unbeliever remarried). After the coming of Jesus Christ and the institution of a
new priesthood of which He is its undying, great High Priest, offering a better Covenant between God and Man,2 and replacing the external Mosaic Law (Heb 6:12; 10:16) with an internal law written in the minds and upon the hearts of all those born again of the Spirit of God, divorce was abolished by God completely, there being now no grounds whatsoever for
divorce, for either Christian or non-Christian because of the one-flesh nature of the union,and this was understood firmly by the entire Church up until the Protestant Reformation,which then branched off and introduced divorce for adultery for the first time as a teaching of the Lord Jesus (which is reflected in the Westminster Confession of Faith [1648]).


. . .

the Universal (Byzantine) Text used by the Early Church, and which had been transmitted faithfully from their day up to the time of the Reformation, then the application of their core doctrine of “sola Scriptura” (“Scripture Alone”) would become a trap, because they would
latch on to a faulty copy and attribute to it the inspiration and infallibility that only belongs to the original text and its faithful copies. And that is exactly what happened in the case of Matthew 19:9, where a scribe in the 15th century added to his copy of the Greek text the small Greek word EI (‘if’) before the negative MH (‘not’) to change the text to read ‘except’ (because in Greek EI placed before MH becomes ‘except’).

Who was the first to add EI to the inspired Word of God? We do not know who did it, but the earliest Greek manuscript to contain the addition does not date earlier than a thousand years after Christ.

How did it get into the Reformers’ Bibles? This we do know. It was through Desiderius Erasmus (1466-1536), the Dutch humanist3. He was not a Reformed Christian. He was brought up in the Catholic Church but, like the Reformers, he became disillusioned with the Catholic Church’s teaching on a number of issues, one of which was their insistence that Jesus did not permit divorce or remarriage. Erasmus was extremely angry at the dogmatic
stance of the Church over this teaching. He believed that divorce was justified in the case of adultery, so when he came to produce the first published edition of the Greek New Testament, he deliberately added EI before MH in Matthew 19:9 to allow divorce for adultery despite the fact that the three manuscripts which he used did not contain it. Not content with changing the Greek text, Erasmus also changed the Latin Vulgate, which was the Bible of the Roman Catholic Church. The Vulgate read: “And I say to you that whosoever shall put away
[Latin: dimiserit] his wife, such as [nisi4 ] for fornication [Latin: fornicationem], and shall marry another, committeth adultery”. Erasmus altered this to read: “And I say to you that whosoever shall repudiate [Latin: repudiauerit] his wife, except [nisi] it be for disgrace [Latin:
stuprum], and shall marry another, committeth adultery”. By changing ‘fornicationem’ to ‘stuprum’, Erasmus widened his exceptive clause from the specific sin of fornication, to the general, catch-all phrase of anything that gives ground for “dishonour, disgrace, defilement,
unchastity, debauchery, lewdness, and violation,”5 all of which are the meanings given to stuprum in the Oxford Latin Dictionary. Suddenly, Erasmus offered divorce not just on sexual grounds (for fornication), but for any cause that gave rise to dishonour or disgrace, which may
not necessarily be sexual, such as abuse or neglect or anything that a partner feels angry about.

The Reformers did not spot the addition made by Erasmus, because handwritten copies of the Greek New Testament were very rare in those days. Everyone took on trust that Erasmus had been faithful to the handwritten Greek copies that he used to produce the first published
edition of the Greek New Testament in 1516. He produced five editions of his text (the last being in 1536, the year he died). In none of them did he correct his mistake, even though by 1536 he had become aware of, and had consulted, many more manuscripts, including the Complutensian Polyglot, which was produced by the Roman Catholic Church in 1522.

. . .


From these texts it is clear that Jesus has abolished divorce per se. There are now no grounds for divorce. Divorce was the creation of man. Marriage was the creation of God. It follows that if the man-made creation of divorce has been abolished for all time to come then remarriage is out of the question. All remarriages are adulterous relationships while
both spouses are still alive. Both fornicators and adulterers are excluded from heaven. “Have you not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? Be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites (homosexuals), northieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit. And certain of you were these! But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were declared righteous, in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God” (1Cor 6:9).

When Erasmus added eij (EI) before mh;, this introduced a completely new idea. Where Jesus had said, “not for fornication,” meaning, a man may not divorce for fornication, Erasmus changed it to read, he may not divorce “except for fornication,” which he then translated it to 12
read, “except for indecency,” thereby permitting divorce for fornicationa and virtually ‘every cause’ that a man can squeeze into “indecency”. Jesus, in fact, specifically ruled out fornication (or adultery) as a grounds for divorce, but Erasmus turned the text into a grounds
for divorce. You could not get a more blatant contradiction that this.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
My GOD is the GOD of all GODs.

There is only but one GOD.

He has always existed and always will exist.

He is the "I Am."
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
My GOD is the GOD of all GODs.

There is only but one GOD.

He has always existed and always will exist.

He is the "I Am."
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
Yes, they say the same thing in Iran....


Ron, you are on a roll!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
But I Am one of the CHOSEN PEOPLE and you are not.

that's right Jeff!

The Jews ARE the Chosen People!

They don't believe Jesus Christ was the son of god.


How does that grab you, Klimmer?

You boys ought to take this over to the Clash of Civilizations thread
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
May 14, 2012 - 11:10am PT
kllimmer,


But I Am one of the CHOSEN PEOPLE and you are not.



TheTool




Jeff,

Yes you are by birth, blood right. But even your own Orthodox Jews would have somewhat against you because you aren't a practicing religious Jew but a secular Jew. You can change that. :-) Yes, the Jews are the "Apple of GOD's Eye."

Christians who beleive and are faithful practicing are grafted into the inheritance that GOD gave to Israel through the blood shed by The Lamb of GOD who came through the bloodline and Jewish lineage of King David. The message was first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles. So yes we are included but we are happy step-children to the promise and gladly so.

The Jews did infact as a whole reject Christ Jesus. This was known that this would happen. The Torah prophesied that the Messiah would come to his own, and his own would know him not. But there is a day coming that the veil will be lifted from the Nation of Israel's eyes and they will weep for Christ Jesus as a mother weeps for her first born. They will know that Christ Jesus is the Messiah promised. He came first to serve in humility and to lay down his life for the sins of the World that all men may be saved. He will come again to conquer.

Jeff, you need to talk with some Messianic Jews and go to Temple with them. WE are on the same side of GOD. You are one of the chosen, and I'm a grafted in step-child to the promise.


But I Am one of the CHOSEN PEOPLE and you are not.


that's right Jeff!

The Jews ARE the Chosen People!

They don't believe Jesus Christ was the son of god.


How does that grab you, Klimmer?

You boys ought to take this over to the Clash of Civilizations thread


See above.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 14, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
I'm a grafted in step-child to the promise.

...among other things...

If you really want to get into heaven, everyone knows you need to be either a Jew or a Catholic, Christian just doesn't cut it.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 15, 2012 - 12:52am PT
So Klimmer, yesterday I went with my brother to The Rock Church in Point Loma to hear Miles McPherson. Imagine my surprise and utter fascination when he spoke for a moment about people -- christians -- exactly like you.

All this time I've just been assuming you are simply a disturbed, deluded, poorly-ministered guy, with a deeply embedded fetish for interstellar intruige and off-the-wall interpretations of scripture: a fairly marginal character just one quick mental breakdown away from a soapbox on some traffic median in the middle of an intersection in downtown San Diego somewhere.

Now, I actually have some compassion for you. Not much, but a little. Cause I gotta tell ya man, you may be the worst ambassador for your faith I've ever observed. The second you open your mouth hearts and minds close up tighter than a space capsule, people grab their kids and run for the exits. To put it bluntly, you come across as being somewhat deranged.

Here's a little ditty to play for your backside-of-the-moon posse during your next abduction:

[Click to View YouTube Video]





Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 15, 2012 - 12:58am PT

This explains why it feels like we've been taking it in the ass for the last few years.
dirtbag

climber
May 15, 2012 - 01:01am PT
James Buchanan: the first gay president?

I had no idea.

Buchanan wrote:

I am now “solitary and alone,” having no companion in the house with me. I have gone a wooing to several gentlemen, but have not succeeded with any one of them. I feel that it is not good for man to be alone; and should not be astonished to find myself married to some old maid who can nurse me when I am sick, provide good dinners for me when I am well, and not expect from me any very ardent or romantic affection.


http://www.salon.com/2012/05/14/our_real_first_gay_president/
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
May 15, 2012 - 01:25am PT
half as many posts
on original topic
oh so many dreams...
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
May 15, 2012 - 01:35am PT
Yes he is throwing the election. Probably per instructions from his
handlers, who could not be so disassociated from the American mainstream
to think this move gets him more votes. They knew voters would run away
from a candidate holding such a position.

Meanwhile gas prices continue to rise.



Captain...or Skully

climber
May 15, 2012 - 01:38am PT
Actually, that is not true. They've gone DOWN here in Idaho. Misinformation?
You guys are ALL just a deck of cards....
Messages 81 - 100 of total 153 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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