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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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I think it's often like what kpil and twp mention. All too often. That's why I said disturbing instead of gruesome or gory.
I think we've all seen the kinds of things I'm talking about. I think anyone in any culture who has made it to say age twenty, has seen more of these disturbing things than they want to remember. How we deal with these things and what we learn from our own actions is what I'm after here.
I've got stacks more examples from my own life. I'll get to some if this thread continues.
Anything 'disturbing' to anyone is fair game here, but for myself I'm more concerned with preventable behavior, or predatory actions by sociopaths, or ways people get ahead at other's expense than I am with how gross guys look after getting run over by steam rollers or dropped into pug mills, if you get my drift.
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Mar 13, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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TWP write, "I had a very hard time relating to the smug, completely confident and materially privileged lot of my American peers."
Happens to me all the time.
Nothing like a hacked off arm of a child to put things in perspective.
I continually wonder about the human condition and the pathway of life we follow. Where you are born often directs that pathway...
Plenty of disturbing events in this part of the world. Plenty of absolutely wonderful ones too...
cheers
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 12:16am PT
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"An artist must be free to choose what he does, certainly, but he must also never be afraid to do what he might choose."
-Langston Hughes
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Mar 14, 2012 - 12:29am PT
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zBrown
Thanks for posting the Michael Ferrara article. I've run into Mongo over the years in the Roaring Fork Valley, and I had no idea.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2012 - 12:53am PT
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Even after the email I sent you yesterday? I think out of thread conversations are a little out of bounds, but whatever - you say you know the people - why not just post that to this thread?
However, my comment is just the same. You picked out climbing ability as somehow relevant to the conflict. My experience says it's superficial. A typical climber response is to dwell there and never get to the heart of the matter - parents, childhood, fears, etc.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Mar 14, 2012 - 12:57am PT
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I should delete the post, but you just quoted it.
Hey, mine is gone, feel free to can yours too.
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Robb
Social climber
The other side of life
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Mar 14, 2012 - 01:01am PT
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Ahhh, where to start?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2012 - 01:52am PT
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12 years & counting now.
Knowing roughly your age from other threads, you've been with this guy as a fairly mature adult. The spit and fire fade with age.
I'm certain you've seen at least as many climbing relationships as anyone else here - I know you've seen your share of drama that isn't abusive nor violent - just noisy and unproductive - damaging to the relationship at worst if that's the only way they can communicate.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 02:35am PT
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Well put Jim. Though too many people in that position just don't see that option, even if it seems obvious to us on the outside. People often grow up into the reality they are presented.
Take the guy who grew up in Wyoming, getting slapped around by his dad. He headed south to the big city to escape when he grew up. Now the landscape, is different, but now he takes out his internalized agressions on his own women, like a real man. His utter lack of reading comprehension doesn't seem to bother him at all. It's just the way it is, in his world.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 03:20am PT
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I wish I knew the answer to your question, it happens so often.
Not all can be "rehabilitated." True psychopaths, BPDs and various others often have no interest or motivation to change. I agree though that we need to do what we can. And it's not always east to tell what that is. Though it's generally more than gets done...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
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Nice analogy, I like that. I don't think "where they came from" is nec. an indicator, all kinds of people rise to the occasion.
That misogynist-stalker getting "hot flashes" a few posts back is troubling though.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
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Heisenberg, babe; you witness it, you're part of it.
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Gearhead
Trad climber
Novato Ca
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Mar 14, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
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During the invasion of Panama, we were taking heavy arms fire outside of a block of houses in a suburban area. We called in air support,expecting to get a couple cobras (Attack Helicoptors). The Air Force lit the whole area up with a AC-130 gunship. Walking through that place and seeing what was left of the people who lived there was a nightmare.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Mar 14, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
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We live immune to the suffering of others. We don't see it, we minimize it when we do see it. Even the suffering of those close to us. Verbal abuse, emotional abuse right here on the Taco daily btw. Belittle Blame and Berate. Violence as a public health issue has it's seed in the family. Parent to child transmission of slaps, kicks,shoving and pushing, neglect,sarcasm,and the three B's. Next thing you know it's passed through the generations, all the while being excused or accepted as a form of intimacy. Children learn to define themselves with defensiveness, bravado and risk in the face of constant humiliation. Anger becomes more self protective than kindness. As adults it feels normal and part of the self and the original family, so to change it means to emotionally leave mom and dad and the first bonds. People hide from themselves with the excuse of irresponsibility and unaccountability. Not my problem if you hurt from what I do.
Good post, Jaybro. Outing the perp is the best thing. People like that depend on secrecy. They think somehow their behavior is not evident.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
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That's kind of a harsh generalization of the entire population of a whole subcontinent there, Scott, don't you think?
Thanks LP! That's it, right there. It's scary to post stuff like this.
"Hands that would feed you when you were two
Were the same hands that beat you black and blue"
-Lucinda Williams from the song 'Sweet side'
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 14, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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What's up with the bashing of the Linder's, no families perfect, and airing that crap on the web is pathetic.
Indeed. Mentioning their names for events which happened well over 10 years ago seems a bit much.
In Squamish several years ago I shared beers with Chris when he was in his early 20's.
Super mellow and friendly dude who was always smiling; seemed devoid of any ego whatsoever.
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Synchronicity
Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
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Mar 14, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
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I've been fortunate in life to not have had to bear witness to many disturbing events. Thats not to say my life is perfect, I lived through domestic struggles between my own parents (thankfully its long over). My father was a very angry man, he took it out on my mother, mostly in the form of verbal abuse. Sadly she was the one earning all the money, etc but she is a strong woman and divorced him and raised 3 kids on her own. We were barely above the poverty line for many years.
I don't take any of it for granted, I'm fortunate that my mothers family (which is HUGE) has no history of major diseases and very few close family members have died.
I have seen some bad car crashes resulting in death, had a few friends pass from tragic accidents. Just last year I watched one of my best friends lose his mother to brain cancer. It was heartbreaking to watch her fade away over the years but her celebration of life was just that, a celebration of a happy life well lived should we all be so fortunate.
As a man myself, I've made it a point to make damn sure I'm never the type of father (or someday husband) that my father was. I can be as moody and frustrated as anyone but I try to keep it in check and not take it out on anyone. I think healthy hobbies like climbing/skiing etc are worthwhile for the healthy state of mind they breed.
Not everyone on this planet is as fortunate as we are and its important to volunteer for aid programs or big brother programs or just to be an ear for people in your own life. I am currently attempting to join a few global initiatives when im done school to do some foreign aid in third-world countries. I expect to be shocked by what I know already exists out there, but I'm glad to be in a position to give back.
I often thought about getting into paramedics or SAR but I'm not sure I could handle it. Those of you who have to deal with such situations have my utmost respect. May you never have to suffer PTSD from the things you see
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Snorky
Trad climber
Carbondale, CO
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Mar 14, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
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Thanks Coz! You're so right. Why bash a single family when you can bash an entire nation? Way to put it in perspective.
I did see a cat cut in half on a sidewalk in Delhi, but it was none of my business.
and seriously, why can't anyone spell Lindner's name?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 14, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
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btw...we go to the crags to focus on the routes and enjoy the outdoors...not listen to families fight and bicker like it's soccer practice at the local middle school.
Your point is taken, but it must have been quite "disturbing" indeed for you to bring it up 15+ years later.
Thank God nobody is rehashing any of my old knott-so shining stuff, LOL
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
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Hoh man! Did you get a load of that guy's haircut ?
:)
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