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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Aug 31, 2011 - 02:43pm PT
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.....cause yer Mammy freebased all my stash,
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apogee
climber
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Aug 31, 2011 - 02:48pm PT
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 31, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
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I'm confused. Weren't we talking about California?
John
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Aug 31, 2011 - 03:05pm PT
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What in Pete Sampras is goin' on here?
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apogee
climber
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Aug 31, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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Go back a page, John. fattrad started the drift with:
"It's just unbelivable how naive Obama is, "
This is all fattrad's fault.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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Since no one responded,
I think it's safe to say there are no private companies paying their comparable employees anything near what the CHP pays.
But wait there's more.
CHP, like almost all state/city/county, is exempt from 6.2% Social Security tax.
CHP is supposed to pay 8% into their generous retirement. But they got the state to pay the employee share.
So multiply by another 1/.938 * 1/.92 = 1.0661 * 1.087 = 1.159
A private employee would have to make at least $119,000 plus full benefits to be comparable to the median CHP making $103,000. (Not counting that the private employee may be bumped into a higher tax bracket.)
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apogee
climber
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Aug 31, 2011 - 03:13pm PT
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"I think it's safe to say there are no private companies paying their comparable employees anything near what the CHP pays."
What's the 'private company' equivalent of a CHP?
A mall cop? A Blackwater mercenary?
Edit: I'm not defending that 'egregious' example, but it's kinda hard to get an apples to apples comparison, donchathink?
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squishy
Mountain climber
Sac town
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Aug 31, 2011 - 03:26pm PT
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Blackwater??
They make about 160K, roughly 600 bucks a day while in contract, maybe more...
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2011 - 06:12pm PT
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You would have to compare officiers killed in the line of duty to say if Blackwater is similar. But it's highly unlikely. Iraq is far more dangerous than California. And mercenary in Iraq is basically 24/7/365 job while you're there. CHP also includes many non-officers, who are included in high pay statistic. The only similar comparison is probably other state patrols.
"The CHP is the largest state police agency in the United States with about 11,000+ employees, of whom 7,500+ are sworn officers, according to FBI data."
62 CHP have died on duty in the last 30 years, approx 2 per year out of 11000 employees.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/memorial/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Highway_Patrol#Fallen_officers
The example I found online shows Washington State median patrol pay is $55K, roughly half that of California.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 31, 2011 - 06:29pm PT
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There must be a story behind how CHP compensation is so much higher than other states. It would be interesting to hear an objective, historical accounting.
(Like that's gonna happen!)
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 31, 2011 - 06:55pm PT
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This stuff happens in government because government hiring and promotion processes often simply look for "check the box" qualifications. Got a PhD? Check! Sure, it can happen in the private sector also, but private companies that hire people with advanced degrees typically require more scrutiny, like an interview process where the candidate must discuss their research, thesis, etc.
There is a tradeoff between minor corruption and inefficiency for the government. In order to avoid the appearance of favoritism, hiring and promotion decisions tend to be more toward the "check the box" and less toward the subject/merit as compared to the private sector.
I don't think this is all bad. If private companies are hiring friends and family over the more qualified, they tend to go out of business whereas government agencies do not. And the public generally seems to be more concerned about corruption than it is about ineffeciency in the government sector. So in order to prevent a public employee from overcharging $50 on a business trip, the government will spend $100 on paper work (whereas the private sector might shrug off the $50).
I don't disagree with this in concept since corruption causes a greater loss of legitimacy with the public even if it costs more. However, this can (and frequently is) overdone.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 31, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
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And coming back to the Prop 13 discussion, I'm in favor of throwing it out or at least reforming it.
If the point of the Prop was to protect grandma from being taxed out of her house, why in the hell did it ever apply to commercial property???
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 31, 2011 - 07:04pm PT
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I was hired in the Federal Govt with a Ph.D. Know what I was told? That it counts for nothing in terms of salary.
I could have gone to K-Street and done the same work for 20k more. I thought long and hard about that offer but stayed at DOJ. Why? Because I, like many people there, wanted to do work we felt was meaningful even if it meant not earning as much.
edit: and by the way, the private sector job I got when I had a Ph.D. didn't include it on my resume. Why? Because hiring experts/consultants I worked with to get a job were clear that it was the kiss of death on a resume in the private sector area in which I worked.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 31, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
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You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Really?
Yes, really. Your "supporting" link fully illustrates how little you understand about federal (i.e. GS) compensation system. The little chart you linked illustrates the level of education required to compete for an opening at said level, barring any other experience. It has absolutely nothing to do with promotion.
Further, you talk about quality of degrees with the implication that there are a bunch of professional public sector workers with degrees in irrelevant liberal arts fields, which again illustrates that you are completely full of sh#t and talking out of your ass. Minimum degree requirements are field specific. A GS 0800 engineering position requires a degree with a specific criteria set:
"Degree: professional engineering. To be acceptable, the curriculum must: (1) be in a school of engineering with at least one curriculum accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET) as a professional engineering curriculum; or (2) include differential and integral calculus and courses (more advanced than first-year physics and chemistry) in five of the following seven areas of engineering science or physics: (a) statics, dynamics; (b) strength of materials (stress-strain relationships); (c) fluid mechanics, hydraulics; (d) thermodynamics; (e) electrical fields and circuits; (f) nature and properties of materials (relating particle and aggregate structure to properties); and (g) any other comparable area of fundamental engineering science or physics, such as optics, heat transfer, soil mechanics, or electronics."
Most professional series are similarly structured in degree requirements specific to the field. And with those qualifications met, you can then compete with others for a chance at the opening.
When I worked for the EPA, everyone in my division was a grad from one or another of the top 10 civil/environmental engineering programs in the country. Joe Diploma Mill wouldn't stand a chance of landing one of those jobs.
Further, advancement has nothing to do with another degree. At best, it could open the opportunities to compete for jobs the GS-11 level for PhD holders, and beyond that aside from a very very few research-specific GS-12 positions, it doesn't even confer that benefit. I went from GS-02 to GS-12. I have a masters degree in a field unrelated to my work. That masters has zero bearing on anything related to my work, compensation, or available opportunities in the system.
Stick to something you know about. Maybe internet wankery, for example.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Aug 31, 2011 - 07:38pm PT
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"A mall cop? A Blackwater mercenary?"
Personally, I think Fattrad and Jody would qualify for mall cops, but not for Blackwater, knowing what we've read of their experience. :)
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Aug 31, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
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Hien Tran...
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Aug 31, 2011 - 07:40pm PT
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"There must be a story behind how CHP compensation is so much higher than other states. It would be interesting to hear an objective, historical accounting.
(Like that's gonna happen!) "
I posted it before, but read Roger Lowenstein's book "While America Aged". San Diego is one of the historical cases discussed. Not CHP, but close - firefighters and cops.
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Gene
climber
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Aug 31, 2011 - 08:09pm PT
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why California is broke
Same reason I'm broke. Outflow > Inflow.
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