Almost inevitable ... over Vernal Falls ... again.

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JLP

Social climber

The internet

Jul 21, 2011 - 12:20am PT

the nightmare on a construction site or heavy manufacturing floor is a group of visiting engineers or managers.

They will blissfully wander into dangerous situations that are obvious to even the janitor.

They aren't stupid. Just in an unfamiliar environment.

There is absolutely no comparison to be made here either. If they were to toss off the hardhats then jump a fence while ignoring the yelling from others, then got crushed by a really loud and heavy machine - then they'd be f*#king idiots.

Get it right and call it a duck. They're idiots. If these people aren't idiots, then there are no idiots in this world. Any desperate reach for empathy here just makes you an idiot too.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

-A community of hairless apes

Jul 21, 2011 - 12:27am PT

Here it is,

Our lives are streams
Flowing into the same river
Towards whatever eternity
Lies beyond the mists and falls.

Savor the joys in your now.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Jul 21, 2011 - 12:28am PT

Compassion is what is called for in this situation.

If you don't have it, do eveyone a favor and shut the f*#k up.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Jul 21, 2011 - 12:32am PT

It's not about empathy at all.

Just that poor decision making and intelligence are only loosely correlated.

The most dangerous (ex) climbing partners I've ever had had Phd's or were book smart to an equivalent level.

Compassion yes.

kunlun_shan

Mountain climber

SF, CA

Jul 21, 2011 - 12:40am PT

I agree with you, TGT. I won't bother to list many of things that could have killed me, and luckily didn't.

Am remembering how I walked a road in Sri Lanka every night for 6 weeks, thinking I didn't need a light because I was so self sufficient. Then the locals told me they used flashlights to look out for deadly snakes that would hang around on the warm pavement. I never considered that. No poisonous snakes in the Canadian north where I was from.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jul 21, 2011 - 01:12am PT

Enough of the self-righteous nonsense and Monday morning quarterbacking.

Let's spare a thought or more for the victims, their families, friends and communities, the witnesses, and YOSAR. All must be devastated.

The three victims were members of a close-knit community of Orthodox Christians in the Central Valley with roots in the Middle East. (At least two were college students, in the early 20s.)
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/20/3783462/vernal-fall-claims-3-from-central.html

The Assyrian Christian community is one of the earliest and longest surviving Christian communities in the world. It's neither Catholic, Protestant, nor Orthodox - it predates all of them. And it was based in Iraq for almost 2,000 years, although the remnants were mostly driven out after Bush's feckless imperial war there. Perhaps they were war refugees, coming to the great American dream. (Though maybe there has been an Assyrian community in the central valley forever, to go with the Armenians, the Sikhs, and others - JE?) If so, they were succeeding - students and churchgoers out for a hike in a great American park. A great loss to their community, but perhaps there is something constructive that can be done to help their families and friends.

SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

Jul 21, 2011 - 01:16am PT

It's so sad. My condolences to the victims families and friends.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Jul 21, 2011 - 01:17am PT

Have a heart, guys. Maybe these poor buggers were from the mid-east desert or something and had no experience with water? Or maybe they were just excited and having fun and taking pictures! At any rate, they blew it. Fatally. It happens. Let he who is without blame cast the first stone, eh?

I can't imagine the horror of their friends and families, watching them plunge over the falls to their deaths. How heartbreaking! I feel very very sad, it is almost impossible to imagine.

Condolences to friends, family and the congregation.

Pete Zabrok

graniteclimber

Trad climber

The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division

Jul 21, 2011 - 02:27am PT

It may have been 70-80 years ago for some here, but remember the stupid sh#t you used to do when you were 20? That's what kids do.

Captain...or Skully

climber

or some such

Jul 21, 2011 - 02:36am PT

Same rule applies to everyone. If you go over the edge, you're on your own.
Sure it's sad. Still true, though.
You keep your distance from SOME things. Mostly.

Hummerchine

Trad climber

East Wenatchee, WA

Jul 21, 2011 - 02:46am PT

Piton Ron

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah

Jul 20, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
The real problem is a legal system that, as a result of liability considerations, precludes the NPS from posting in absolutely NO subtle terms just how FUKKING DANGEROUS the location is, and exactly up to now how many people who have ignored the warnings have paid for their foolishness with a horrible death.

If they did it would only bite them in the ass in the next civil case.

So the sign says the bare minimum and foolish people who arrogantly ignore it pay the real price for a bloated legal system that rewards lawyers quick to sue the park service for doing just what most tourists want; enabling them to contact nature.

Hey Ron!

That post just struck me as incredibly well put...

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jul 21, 2011 - 03:06am PT

PR: The real problem is a legal system that, as a result of liability considerations, precludes the NPS from posting in absolutely NO subtle terms just how FUKKING DANGEROUS the location is, and exactly up to now how many people who have ignored the warnings have paid for their foolishness with a horrible death.

If they did it would only bite them in the ass in the next civil case.

So the sign says the bare minimum and foolish people who arrogantly ignore it pay the real price for a bloated legal system that rewards lawyers quick to sue the park service for doing just what most tourists want; enabling them to contact nature.

It doesn't take long on the internet to explode that theory. A few photos, none of them mine, as a public service:

IIRC, there are other signs in the immediate area of Vernal Fall, as well as at the base of and along the Mist Trail and the John Muir trail leading to it. Perhaps some of them are specific as to deaths in the area, and causes for same. But they're far from subtle. And there's signage and information elsewhere in the park. As well as the abundant physical evidence that it's a place where nature is in charge.

The NPS Park website says, in the fine print: Never swim or wade upstream from the brink of a waterfall, even if the water appears shallow and calm. Each year unsuspecting visitors are swept over waterfalls to their deaths when swimming in these areas.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/yoursafety.htm

Should they perhaps erect razor wire on the railings? How would that fit with park values?

As for the claim that the public is suing the NPS to death for real and imaginary hazards and injuries, and that the NPS is paralyzed - source?

Anyway, to reiterate, the concern now is the survivors, who I imagine are at the eye of a news media hurricane.

Captain...or Skully

climber

or some such

Jul 21, 2011 - 03:10am PT

Sez right there...You Will Die.
It's true.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Jul 21, 2011 - 08:45am PT

Well Anders, you have definitely exploded my hypothesis.

I guess the jury is in.
It WAS darwinism.

tom woods

Gym climber

Bishop, CA

Jul 21, 2011 - 10:05am PT

In the photo above, it appears that the warnings have become more detailed since I worked there. The guardrail has also sprouted additional rails, closer together.

These people didn't know how dangerous their situation was. Perhaps it was a bit of group think. They were having so much fun, feeling so good, they weren't thinking straight. Anybody else ever do that?

Perhaps they had never experienced high river water.

Nobody understands how slippery river polished granite is until they experience it. Most of us learn these things and live to use the experience. These poor people did not.

It will happen again. You could post a Ranger at the rail 24/7, yelling at people, tasering them, and issuing fines. It would still happen.

I've screamed at whole families who crossed the short rapid stretch above the falls with kids. I've watched a guy walk across the edge in low water. (I did not yell at him until he reached the other side.)

Yosemite= lots of cliffs + lots of people. Accidents will happen.

HuecoRat

Trad climber

Jul 21, 2011 - 10:54am PT

Thanks, Micronut. Well said.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, CA

Jul 21, 2011 - 11:31am PT

Heard a caller from Angel's Camp on the radio this morning. Witnessed the event.

He said an asshat was on the water side of the railing with a 6-year in his arm taking pics despite warnings from people around him. The caller thinks this activity led to the 3 going out onto the rock in the river, thinking all was safe.

One fell in, the other 2 went in trying to grab the first. All 3 went over the fall.

Apparently the man with kid was at the railing right over the top of the falls, see Anders' pic above.

Gene

climber

Jul 21, 2011 - 11:40am PT

From today's Modesto Bee:

http://www.modbee.com/2011/07/20/1782649/3-presumed-dead-after-going-over.html

cleo

Social climber

Berkeley, CA

Jul 21, 2011 - 12:07pm PT

This is all very sad. Very, very tragic. One stupid mistake, a carefree mindset, groupthink, trusting that someone else is an "expert" and not thinking for yourself (don't they teach about this is avalanche courses), and not having the experience to understand the power of river currents -> all of this lead to this tragedy.

Certainly makes me more likely to stand up and aggressively reprimand someone who is doing something dangerous.

Also, believe it or not, I don't think you're allowed to sue a National Park if you hurt yourself? You have to prove that the park was actively doing something that caused you to get hurt, but leaving everything as is (e.g. not putting up signs) gets thrown out of court.