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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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I certainly hope we don't go further down the trail of, "It might lead to a lawsuit" when deciding what things we allow in the park. I'm really surprised that you feel this way Jim. More people have drowned falling in the water at the top of vernal falls then have died on the half dome cables. Should we close that trail because it puts people in danger? I certainly hope not.
Do more education, but leave the cables up.
Besides, if you take down the cables, I guarantee you someone will want to take down all the bolts and rap rings in the park. I might must join them.
Thanks Dean and Riley, for saying what I wanted to say, but was too pissed off at the time to say nicely.
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OR
Trad climber
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I think I asked this before, but isn't there a rap route that avoids the cables for climbers?
HAHHAHAHH....Those cables are an eyesore and those tourons piss me off and the scars to the landscape..terrible, Get rid of them now! BTW is there a rap route for climbers only with bomber bolts all the way down? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from an ice pic and missing my mama.
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DMT...
I admire people that go out of their comfort zone... Just not when it endangers themselves and others. Freezing on the cables forcing people to pass around you on such dangerous terrain.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Freezing on the cables forcing people to pass around you on such dangerous terrain.
Then don't use them. If you want them taken down because they are dangerous, then why did you use them?
And If they are so dangerous, then why haven't more people gotten hurt on them? They do put the fear into me pretty good, but I have not gotten a good answer to that question. They are way slicker now, then 30 years ago, but still there has been very few accidents.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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I know what you mean Dean. I have been up them maybe 20 times. I use to run that trail. Getting to the top gives people a serious stoke. I get a kick out of chatting with them about how great it was. The idiots piss me off, but there are a whole lot more decent folks, then idiots. Thankfully...
While hiking the Whitney trail I met a couple who were celebrating their 70th wedding anniversary by hiking to the top. Those folks rocked. He was 90, and she was 87. I think the oldest person that I met on top of half dome was 76. I generally try to talk to the old timers because I think that it is cool that they are still out there adventuring.
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WBraun
climber
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Only self centered people want to remove these cables and trails ......
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Gene
climber
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I see both sides of the discussion. Inevitably, the cables will come down. Probably within the next 30 to 50 years.
I cherish the trip up HD I made with my daughter when she was six or seven. She worked so hard on that trip and was thrilled by the adventure. An added treat was her other partner, Mickey Mouse, was able to come with us.
I've posted this pic before cuz I love it.
g
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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That is an awesome picture Gene. Thanks for sharing it.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Two tidbits of personal history that disturb a bright distinction between wilderness experiences and catering to the masses.
1. I have only descended the cables, five times, but I used them.
2. The first time I climbed Half Dome, up the regular NW, in the late 60s, I arrived on top in the early morning. We had been benighted two pitches from the top, with me at the left end of the Thank God Ledge pitch and my belayer at the beginning.
The early bird hiker was astonished to met anyone on top. He saw me eyeing his old style, canvas covered canteen and offered me a sip of water, my first in 24 hours. As I was setting the belay and the hiker was edging closer to the visor lip and tryig to get his head around the ideaa of climbing the NW face, he shook his head and muttered, "I wouldn't do that for a million dollars." (And this was back when $1,000,000 was real money.)
I nodded sagely and said in return, "Neither would I."
This turned out to be true: the next time I climbed Half Dome a few years later, again by the Regular route, I did it for a guide’s fee of $500.
(Come to think of it, $500 was real money then too.)
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The NP mandate is to preserve the environment in as pristine a state as possible.
That's only part of the mandate, Jim. If that were all, the NPS could fulfill its mandate by posting armed guards just outside the National Parks and shooting anyone trying to enter.
The NPS also has a mandate to preserve the Parks for the public, which implies access. It also is required to preserve matters of historical interest, which the Cables now are, being over 90 years old.
My first exposure to Yosemite climbers was via the cables in 1968 when, as a 17-year-old, I did my first solo backpack from Tuolumne Meadows to the valley, and detoured to the summit of Half Dome (this was already my fourth trip there), just as a party was finishing the regular NWF. Although I'd been climbing for about a year, I thought of Yosemite climbers as superhuman. Watching them end the climb showed me that I could climb in the Valley, too.
Removing the cables would be a real deprivation to the non-climbing public of one of the most extraordinary hiking experiences most will ever accomplish. Leave 'em alone, please!
John
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I suspect from all this sentiment that the summit of HD has proved to be far more resistant to graffiti than Angel's Landing.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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This is the modern tension between preserving wilderness and making nature's splendor accessible. There is no true wilderness in Yosemite Valley between Pohono Bridge and the Snow Creek switchbacks or well beyond the Half Dome trailhead. There are pockets of wilderness in many places such as Eagle Creek and Illilouette Gorge. So we have a gradation of wilderness. It's entirely appropriate that "ordinary" people can get themselves to the top of Half Dome and back in relative safety. Their experience will give them a much greater appreciation for unspoiled nature than a drive through Tuolumne Mdws. They are well warned along the way. The 8 miles and 4000' up are a good filter. The primitive cables are a final filter. Guido decided not to take Kalli. Appropriate for the situation. The recent fatalities have caused NPS to implement a permit system. Makes sense. There are many more affronts to "wilderness" in Yosemite Valley. Unrestricted car travel around the loop road is top of my list, I'm sure you've got another. Let's deal with those first.
If you want the top of Half Dome to yourself, hike up in November after the first snows. You might be the only party up there (as we were). Let the cables stay (for now).
Fred
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Another via ferrata is Lady Mountain in Zion. It was rickety when I did it in the early 70s and may actually have been removed by now. It climbs 2300 feet in 1.6 miles.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Sorry Donini, but in terms of a choice of famous old guys, I'm with Werner all the way on this one. Not that I have a vote that matters...
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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WBraun, all climbers are self centered to a certain degree. Well all people.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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Ah Werner, I wouldn't expect an ad hominem argument from you! I'm sure you have enough arguments that have nothing to do with "perceived" character traits of those who don't agree with you.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I think Werner called me wobbly and out of control.
I do think Werner's assigning campers to a rebirth as an accountant for the NPS is indeterminate with regard to karma; for some of us, that would be an improvement: living in the Valley, climbing after work, visiting Werner and Dill.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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6) Tourist chicks dig climbers. Lots of ugly stinky guys have gotten laid.
The Half Dome cables. Getting ugly stinky guys laid since 1875.
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WBraun
climber
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Only self centered people want to remove these cables and trails ......
Jim
The above statement was made as a collective aim towards anyone including myself and not to you or anyone personally.
I know full well the problems with the trail to Half Dome and the cables.
We have a good percentage of our calls in this corridor during the peak season.
But 99% of the people traveling this area never have a problem for us, it's only a very small percentage of the total. One can leave this trail and in a couple minutes you'll see nobody.
It's one of the most popular trails in the country and anyone can see why real easily once having traveled it.
You can take the cables down and I'll guarantee our calls for help will increase exponentially.
There will be so many people attempting to get up there and ledge out.
You can guarantee this happening for sure.
I've seen every stupid thing in the book and more here in all these years.
It's unbelievable sometimes ...... :-)
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