Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 08:40pm PT
|
Wes, Serenity has a bolt on the first pitch, near pin scars; it's always been controversial because pro can be arranged right near it (probably the bolt is an old residual of when it was a "nailing" aid route).
Look, to be clear, I don't fault you for any climbs that you have or haven't done. I couldn't care less about that. I hope you have a lot of fun with whatever climbing you do. I also don't fault you if you've never done a first ascent. I fault you only for an opinion that is pure crap - that bolting next to cracks is sometimes OK.
As I said, rights aside, (thankfully) people like Norwegian have the power to correct the situation. (Edited, again, sigh, for another typo)
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
|
k-man, I hope you really laid into those cowards! ATROCITIES LIKE THIS MUST BE DEALT WITH AGGRESSIVELY.
Um, no I didn't really lay into them, except to say that I've been climbing in that area for over 30 years and I find it pretty disrespectful to bolt established climbs. I guess that's called retro-bolting, and for the most part it's done by wankers.
As for aggression, it seems to me like you're the most aggro on this thread. I called the bolters "Bozos," not cowards. Furthermore, the rock at the Sugarloaf is not choss. It is some of the most beautiful granite. Even if the climb is only "20 meters," it should be respected.
What is with the children these days...
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 08:52pm PT
|
Warbler, it must have been nice to have bolts that were placed by the first ascent team to clip on the FFA. Especially on that climb.
But, I think that's a bit different than adding bolts to a climb that for years has gone without. What would you say if somebody added bolts to the runs on Quicksilver? Heck, it's one of the best 5.9s in The Valley, shouldn't everyone be able to climb it safely?
Or, how about adding bolts to the entire Good Book? Why should I need trad gear to climb the best 5.10 in Yosemite?
We're not far from that logic.
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
|
I personally love old Bridwell sport climbs.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 09:44pm PT
|
Roger that, Warbler. Good sense.
I think this is a hot button because the "choss pile" is not hidden in some back-woods gulch--it's just next to Sugar Bun at the Loaf. Not exactly high profile, but fairly prominent. And it does set a precedent in the area.
All that aside, I like your gut feel that bolting is such a hot button, that we don't have to fear serious retro-bolting and bolts appearing next to beautiful cracks. I hope that's true.
PS. Wes, you didn't find the bolt next to Serenity Crack because somebody beat you to the chop. You can dig up all the dirt in an old thread here on the Taco.
|
|
skychild
Trad climber
Birmingham, Alabama
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
|
Aganga, the question, the question remains, how many routes have you put up you pussy bitch(is that redundant?)when I mean pussy i meah wescrist)
WaIT DO YOU EVEN HAVR ERIENDS i doubt it.
|
|
skychild
Trad climber
Birmingham, Alabama
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:18pm PT
|
I live in the greater Carson/Tahoe area, way closer to the action than some "Pseudo-scientist" that lives admidst a big pile of cow dung. Wow four, four new routes under your belt. woo fukinhoo From my perspective after being involved in over 150 new routes, you should speak when spoken to, you have no experience to voice your opinion in such matters. Period Don
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
|
Don, come on, that's little strong. I think Wes has some profoundly bad ideas about bolting where's and whens. But there isn't any order out there that I am aware of placing climbers according to what ascents they've done (first or otherwise). At least he's got the courage to engage here instead of just going out in the field and f**ing things up.
And, Kevin, there's a ton of sense in your comment:
"I think the obvious disdain many climbers have for such bolting, in itself, limits it to a reasonable level - I don't see it as the beginning of the end of climbing as we know it."
You're probably very right. But look at the disconnect between this and what you said right before that. You said: "And maybe not worth the fuss." But that's what this whole thread has been; the fuss has been trying to show and reinforce the distain.
|
|
rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
|
wes-
ha, 4, hahahhahahhahhhahahhahhahahaahhah.
(rest)
hahahhahahhhhahhahahhahahhahahhhhahahhahahha
|
|
rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
|
RB and I have discussion gear advancements for years.
We have had the gear to protect many things since the mid 1980's and Chuck Pratt proved 20 years prior to that wide cracks can be protected by your body.
chop them.
give the hardware back to perps.
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
|
Apr 11, 2010 - 11:47pm PT
|
Sky sounds a lot like the CHimchimster? Or Brian Boitano.
Besides, you don't have to have done FA's to respect an ethic that is long standing.
Spewing about your new routes gains no ground in this discussion.
Mucci
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:13am PT
|
Wes, you are correct, I don't think you ever said these bolts were a good idea. But they are plainly indefensible as is your view of them - which seems to amount to "let's negotiate, about their fate."
And as for: "Give me a fuking break... it is a 50' chimney."
That too is true. But no breaks will be given. If it is OK to bolt next to a protectable, 50 foot chimney, where do we draw the line? Is it only an outrage if it's 60 feet long (maybe you missed my sarcasm on this before)? Or when it reaches what other criteria? When is it OK to abuse the rock, to sate an ego at the expense of what is there? Answer, it isn't. It's just as wrong next to a 50 foot chimney on a chosspile as it is next to a "nicer" crack or in a nicer area.
|
|
North
climber
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:20am PT
|
I could be wrong, but seems to me that Wes has quite effectively and apparently steathly (is that a word?) reeled a few of you in. Hook, line, and sinker.
Oh yeah, I've been (and still do) climbing at Sugarloaf over 30 years. Yeah, there's stacks of bolts all over the place these days. May I suggest one simple solution. Really, it is simple. Crazy simple actually----just walk on by and don't bother climbing them. Period. Easy. But when people threaten to chop, badmouth others, and just generally act like third graders who got their lunch money stolen it all gets pretty silly and obnoxious. Walk by. Just walk by.
If bolts are added to an established route without first ascentionists "permission" (like we own the crags), then they should be removed as it takes away the effort, spirit, courage, and vision of the first ascentionists.
That said, I'm yet to see a "rule book" after all these years. Maybe those that added some bolts to this chimney route that has caused such a commotion weren't aware of the climbing communittee's unwritten rules. This is another chance to educate others. Not censorship, but education.
But hey, if all else fails....walk on by.
|
|
sportcamper
Trad climber
east gone west
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 12:36am PT
|
cheers to locker..
 well put..
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:23am PT
|
Norweedge and Alex need to battle it out with horrid poetry. The real winer here is axe that gets to grind.
Pull 'em, Leave 'em, poop on 'em, eat 'em, stick 'em in your ear. Whatever makes you happy.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 01:41am PT
|
(OT) i saw "bolts" and wondered if anybody knows where i can get a 50 gallon drum of JB Weld?
thanks in advance.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 03:01am PT
|
I agree, Rad. Lines and lines, but hey its all good, i clipped 'em.
|
|
corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 03:17am PT
|
Not worried about karma eh Radical? Braver than many of us.
|
|
mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 03:42am PT
|
What would Bachar do?
|
|
mountain dog
Trad climber
over the hills and far away
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2010 - 03:56am PT
|
This thread is a little long for me to read every post, but this is what I think.
I think any bolted crack is bullsh#t. That goes for the ones at so called sport climbing areas too. Even if they are a bit chossy. Cracks are for gear not bolts, or run it out, or don't climb it. Not every piece of stone needs to be climbed by every climber.
I think that most people who place bolts next to cracks are doing it for their own recognition, rather than a genuine service to the climbing community.
If you feel it is proper to remove these bolts Norwegian, I support you.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!