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Haggis
Trad climber
Scotland
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Aug 10, 2009 - 04:05pm PT
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No expert but I found with my Metolius ones that they slip slowly with my full weight and that on one of them the upper part of the buckle dosn't align with the lower part (20 - 30 degrees off) any more.
I have ordered replacements but real aid climbing gear in the UK is hard to get
good luck
Rob
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 10, 2009 - 04:09pm PT
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All those new fangled adjustable jobs will slip, fuzz out and break at somewhat low loads. It's the nature of the beast. Plan on using one new one per wall, and then either replace the webbing, or get a new one. By a couple of walls, the teeth on the cam are probably gassed too and even new webbing will not keep the webbing creep from shrinking your nutsac. They are cheap.... use fresh ones whenever you can.
OMG!!!!! Here is one now!!!!11116666!!!! http://tinyurl.com/mzhkb5
Don't believe the numbers either. 300lbs is not what it will break at... zero chance.
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piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
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Aug 10, 2009 - 05:15pm PT
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Russ,
What is the working load limit for the FISH adjustable daisies?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 10, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
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WLL.... that is a good one for funny numbers. We rate ours at bodyweight + rack for WLL, when the unit is new... once you use it all bets are off ;)
Breaking strength is off the top of my head something like 2300lbs? Not sure... I'll go look it up if you really want to know.
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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I have only used and worn out two sets of Mets. I do love em, but they have their limitations, as with anything. They do not like frost/frozen webbing in the morning. Dirt/sand acts the same as ice, but was good for sphincter exercise one AM. Infinitely adjustable and can get that just right adjustment to reach out high-high-high and still get that pulled into the wall thing going. Even better now that I learned how to Tee Off via Ron's and Jeff's video.
This was something I never got just right with my old daisies. I have never used Russ's or Yates. I probably will when the next set comes due. Another question, why would someone need a daisy to hold over body weight, as in XX00 lbs?
Seems like a waste of material and unnecesary load should a daisy fall occur.
I still see no reason to dislike my Metolious units, just do not see me not trying something new next time. Also the easy daisy was very easy to handle in the dark, one handed, in mid cluster, learn how to rethread the buckle(oops once), and extend one handed easily. I have modified both sets via a German's recomendations, and not been sorry except for the impromptu rethread needed.
My two cents have a lot less mileage than many here, so what ever you think it is worth.
Bob
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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I prefer Metolius simply because it take two hands to loosen a Yates.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
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Yates Hands down. Strength counts and releasing when weighted is a big deal.
Haven't seen the Fish rigs but always appreciate supporting the Bro
Peace
Karl
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:44pm PT
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"...and releasing when weighted is a big deal."
Yeah I love it when the Yates start releasing on their own when weighted. Makes El Cap so much more exiting.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:46pm PT
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The Metolius do the same thing... And my experience with them was that they didn't start slipping, they started letting go! As in suddenly you were at the end of the daisy, which = dangerous, as it was basically creating a daisy fall.
Maybe they've changed since then? This was 8 or 9 years ago.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
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It's easy to lengthen a Yates with one hand, but then you need to shift your grip to clip the biner in.
With the Metolius is takes a little more force to pull the webbing thru, but your hand is always holding the biner in the ready to clip position.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Aug 11, 2009 - 12:54pm PT
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Ummm... Yeah. Why would it take two hand to lengthen a Yates?
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piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
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Aug 11, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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Russ,
Thanks for the info. 2000 lbs sounds good to me. I'll call you when my current Yates wear out.
Xtrmcat,
Seriously? You can't think of any advantages of having a daisy that has a working load of 2000 lbs vs 300 lbs?
Lambone,
I am able to lengthen my Yates with one hand.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 11, 2009 - 01:49pm PT
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Just to clarify some of the terms being used.
WLL, or Working Load Limit is the amount of weight a given widget is designed to handle with absolute safety. In industry the WLL is usually 3x or 5x depending on what county the widget comes from or how they decide to rate it. So, a daisy rated to 300lbs WLL, will probably break at 3 x 300 = 900lbs, or if they are doing the 5x thing, 1500lbs.
SWL, or Safe Working Load I believe is the same thing. You will see this stamped on the side of metal hooks (like Mussy Hooks) etc. There is also a different term for stuff used "overhead" but it escapes me. Same idea though.
Breaking Strength is the poundage it takes to bring the unit to failure, one way or another.... so the daisy I broke at 2000lbs, would have a "breaking strength" of 2000lbs (+/-) but that is in no way the WLL or the SWL.
Got it? 'cause YER GONNA DIE!!!!!!!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 11, 2009 - 01:54pm PT
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I use Yates with the following caveats:
I consider it a very disposable item and part of the expense of me doing a climb the way I prefer. A fuzzy old daisy that requires an extra 10 lbs. of force every time I adjust it isn't worth the strain.
I always have traditional daisies in the bag for the if and when the adjustable blows. I've had a brand new one start slipping on p1. Usually they live to be retired for the reason above though.
If I'm not adjusting the daisy in the name of moving faster (just about never happens), I use traditional daisies so that hopefully only my spleen or placement is destroyed if I fall.
People have taken big ugly falls with both the Metolius and the Yates, I'm pretty sure, when they fell onto them and the daisies broke.
I never got the hang of the Metolius adjusting scheme. I'm impatient with new methods though when the ones I already know are working OK for me.
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piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
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Aug 11, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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It would be nice to see a breaking test on a pair of all three types.
If we get some to you Russ, can you break them and post the results?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 11, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
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Yeah.... I can break stuff or you. There is also a guy called Aric on here and on rc.com that is way into breaking stuff and has some nice equipment.
Either way.... I'll try to wake him up right now with an email and get him over here. Email sent....
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 11, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
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You can get a Fish with replacement webbing for less than the cost of Yates. Good deal.
I don't know about those 80s colors though :-).
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Aug 11, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
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I have some Yates speed stirrups that slipped.
They were not very worn, but with an older buckle style that is not as stout as the current one.
After considerable thought and experiment looking for a lighter and better set up, I've gotten this far.
They haven't been out for a real road test yet, but seem to work well. I used them without the clevis pin, and they held and adjusted well, but the webbing could twist out of position and then slip.
Have also been experimenting with adjustable daisy made from a cordalette and a Ropeman ascender, as suggested by somebody. Promising, tho a bit tricky to extend with one hand.
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adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
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Aug 11, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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Hey all,
Russ just dropped me an email to lure me out of lurk mode... If he'd like to bow out of the testing due to possible conflict of interest issues I could certainly do it (I'm the guy over in The Lab on RC who amuses himself with this sort of thing). I'm a bit booked at the moment so not spending much time here, so just drop me an email if you need me.
-aric.
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