Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
|
All placed on sight, on lead - no hooks, bat hooks or other aids. I even started to place a bolt half way up the runout on the first pitch, where there's a bit of a break. But I got started, and realized it wasn't going to happen, so just kept going. With modern rubber, you could probably stop anywhere and place a bolt on a climb like that. It's not very hard, just sustained and runout.
|
|
thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
|
At the time I sent it, it was the hardest slab route I had ever been on and boy was it exciting..
|
|
Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
|
Still is. I wanna hit Eric's and Bran flakes now.... They seem a tad runout tho :)
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
|
Well, Mike and Luc will be cheered to know that the upper Apron is ready for them. After I finished the Slab Alley and Pineapple Peel restoration project last summer (a story in itself, reported on squamishclimbing.com), I spent several days on the upper Apron. Bits of cleaning, bringing down all the perched rocks from Granville Street (now a pile on Broadway), checking all the bolts and replacing those that were of concern, patching, and re-installing the rappel route on Granville Street which someone chopped some years ago. So all the bolts and hangers are ship-shape, and you can rappel with one 60 m rope.
There are two bolts in Eric's Route, which is one long pitch. One bolt in the first pitch of Bran Flakes. IIRC, Tami, Peter, Richard and I did Black Bug's Blood that day, and had a rest at Broadway. They had earlier done some of Bran Flakes - PC Junior's favourite breakfast. That is, up to the first bolt, which they'd placed, but which wasn't very good. Plus some brushing? So I got to go up, place a good bolt, and remove the other. I came down, and someone then finished that pitch - Peter or Richard. Then someone did the second pitch, which again IIRC has one bolt, but I can't remember who did it. I may have a slide or two around that would help. I vaguely recall that they'd brushed the route beforehand.
Things seem to happen backwards up there. I brushed AQOB after climbing it, then there was the replacement bolt thing on BF.
|
|
bmacd
Boulder climber
100% Canadian
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 05:04pm PT
|
Don't want to see that carbon steel snap under too much load eh?
Begin drilling thru the bolt-eye hole of the hanger with the drill, have a couple slings pre-clipped to the hanger for standing on as the bit sinks deeper. Yah thats the ticket, Warren Harding taught me everything I know. ;-)
OT - Need partners 4 easy trad multi pitch in Red Rocks this week. PM me with your telephone number - tks !
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
|
OK, so here's a photo from our climb of Bran Flakes. Having done the runout and re-placed the bolt, I was once again pretending to be a photographer.
The route had indeed been pre-brushed - may have given me the idea to do AQB.
And from AQB.
No brushing here, no sirree. And there sure was lots of lichen and salal there in those days. (The routes can't be more than 8 - 10 m apart, if that.)
|
|
thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
|
That a pretty neat trick bruce, have you done much leadbolting?
What do you guys think about rap bolting... lets hear it.
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 10:59pm PT
|
that's cheating...
google the Bachar-Yerian and see the state of the art and the standard we were trying to measure up to... they put that route up 31 yrs. ago.
Sorry to be so pig-headed about it but I always had the utmost respect for the climbers that came before us. A quick look into the origins of cutting edge routes in Tuolomne, Yosemite, Needles, and Joshua tree will show an amazing pool of talent. I saw no reason why we shouldn't try to keep up.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2012 - 11:16pm PT
|
The murky origins of rapbolting and sport climbing at Squamish, and the history of Petrifying Wall, are a long and complex story. I don't know who was the first to place bolts on a new route, on rappel, in Squamish. Sometime in the mid to late 1980s.
It was perhaps in some ways a logical development, in that few new routes were established after the late 1970s that weren't first cleaned and so inspected on rappel. Once you've dug out the crack, scrubbed off some moss and lichen, dislodged the loose rocks, and maybe even placed intermediate belay bolts, it's not quite a bolt from the blue.
It was a subject of intense debate, though, as people grappled with how to get up things at Pet Wall.
Apart from route restoration projects, which don't count, I've only rapbolted once. I cleaned a new variation on the Apron, which became A Troll's Sonnet, by myself one day in 2000. Some friends were coming up after work so we could climb it, and I got impatient and put in the bolts. All of them at stances where it wouldn't be hard to stand and drill, so it didn't make any real difference. Guilty as charged.
|
|
Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 12:02am PT
|
The murky origins of rapbolting and sport climbing at Squamish, and the history of Petrifying Wall, are a long and complex story. I don't know who was the first to place bolts on a new route, on rappel, in Squamish. Sometime in the mid to late 1980s.
I'd better jump in here. Sometime in 1963-1965, my brother, Bob (one of the best and boldest at the time) climbed Slab Alley on the Apron. Above the 3-bolt ladder, which he did free at 5.9, the normal route goes right to a good belay. Above the belay, you traverse left and slightly up to get into an interesting, deep groove (the so-called Elephant Steps, or Heffalumps).
Bob climbed this normal route, had someone belay him from the top of of the Elephant Steps. Bob rapped down to the very steep, smooth bulge below the Elepant Steps and above the 3-bolt ladder and placed a bolt in the middle of the bulge. He and his climbing partner -- neither Bob nor I can remember who it was --- then descended to the base of the 3-bolt ladder.
Bob then freed (again) the bolt ladder, then continued (free) up the steep bulge, clipping into his new bolt for pro. He then continued up the Elephant Steps to the belay.
Bob's bulge is rated in McLane at 5.10d. Was this the first 5.10 (or 5.10d) at Squamish? Probably. And it was almost certainly the first rap-bolted pitch at Squamish.
Shoes? Bob was wearing an ancient pair of kletterschues. These were state of the art and consisted of a unlined, leather upper with a Vibram sole. We tried to get them to fit fairly snugly, with a sock, but nothing as tight as today's agony shoes. We always walked down in them, without much pain. Some people used them as light hiking or mountaineering shoes.
And here's the killer bit of trivia: Bob says that the toes were completely gone in them and his toes were sticking out, waving in the air. I would love to know what he could have done if sticky rubber had been available then...
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 12:25am PT
|
Oh I'm aware it happened. Just offering my (stubborn) two cents worth.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 12:44am PT
|
Well, I don't remember any bolts at all on Ali Bhutto - and I was looking at it just a few weeks ago. Plus once climbed it. Maybe some other route?
As you say, Glenn's story trumps it anyway. Rap bolting at Squamish, in 1964? Egads! Good thing the Valley Christians never heard about it. Tell Bob that as part of the Slab Alley project, I diligently cleaned his variation, and replaced the bolt. And yes, it was probably one of the first hard 5.10 pitches - well, a few moves, anyway - in Canada.
Still, an isolated event doesn't necessarily show any established practice or trend.
When I got started, it was clear that placing bolts on rappel was unacceptable. Simply NOT DONE. Everything had to be on sight - some guy from Yosemite had been handed tablets from on high to that effect. Except that just about then, people started to clean while aid climbing, and on rappel, and things got blurrier. Eric got into pre-pinning, or whatever you call it, while cleaning on aid lead. But the commandments were abundantly clear - thou shalt not place any more bolts than absolutely necessary, and only on lead. But then there was Wheat Thin, in 1971...
|
|
thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 01:15am PT
|
Thanks for the awesome replies cool to hear your opinions on the matter. In the crack climbing side of the spectrum has there ever been controversy about strategically over driving pins where bomber hand placed pro didnt appear to be readily available.. In the ethics department, not including the pissed off persons who purchased the over driven pitons.
|
|
hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 02:18am PT
|
Another good lead for the time, by Bob, was the now 10a crux on the 2nd version of Sickle. When I did it in 65 or 66, with the late Roger Marshall, and also wearing vibram soles, I certainly hesitated for a while. They weren't designed for slabs. Roger, being a Brit [ha ha] required a little judicious tension thru the crux.
|
|
thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 11:14am PT
|
Says here Ali butto was first climber in 1979, quite a bit earlier the the mid to late eighties indeed. Tami, did Peter call you out on your sub standard style..
Hamish; you mention above trying to measure up to Yosemite and Tuolome standards, did this influence your Uwall solo? Was rope soloing a big thing in Yosemite back in the day?
Also have you done the bachar-yarian line? And how does it measure up to genius loci?
|
|
hamish f
Social climber
squamish
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 11:39am PT
|
No, I don't think the California climbing influenced me doing a couple walls solo-style. Aid climbing was very popular in those days and free climbing was a little younger. I was a little younger, too, and found aid climbing much easier than free climbing.
Unfortunately I never tried the Bachar-Yerian. Tuolomne is at 9500 feet so its pretty much a summer area. It was tough, as a canuck, to justify a cal. trip during the summer. Excuses, excuses, that route looked so tough, mentally. I would bet it's steeper and way more run out than genus-loci. Perhaps not technically as difficult, but much more demanding on your mind.
Anyone could show up and start flinging themselves at genus-loci, with the Bachar-Yerian you'd want all your rods and cones alligned perfectly.
|
|
Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
|
Still, an isolated event doesn't necessarily show any established practice
True, that was an isolated incident.
When I got started, it was clear that placing bolts on rappel was unacceptable. Simply NOT DONE. Everything had to be on sight - some guy from Yosemite had been handed tablets from on high to that effect.
The tablets hadn't made it up to Squamish in the mid-1960s and, even if they had, the Vancouver group might have ignored them. We were probably more influenced by the ethics of the Seattle climbers and what was happening in the Leavenworth area than by the California scene. It wasn't until people like Hamie, Tim Auger, Bob Woodsworth started making trips to Yosemite that most of us had any inklink of what was really going on down there. There simply wasn't that much interchange between Squamish and Yosemite in those days.
|
|
thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
|
What does the Squamish inquisition(the group formally know as the smoke bluffs moral and ethics committee) think of the current generation "designing" multi pitch routes for beginner trad climbers?
|
|
thekidcormier
Trad climber
squamish, b.c.
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 04:47pm PT
|
Specifically like the skywalker variation of dick culberts forked flume.. Where bolted anchors were placed on top rope beside amazing stances that take bomber gear..
Permission was given by the FAist, and its a great route.. mind you when I climbed it Aislinn and I simul climbed it and skipped all the bolts.
I think it's a slippery slope and I am wondering what the thoughts of squamishs pioneers are on the matter.
|
|
Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
|
Haven't done Skywalker yet (rained last year before I could get up there). Somebody's got to take me up it this summer! But it sounds really good.
I was generally supportive of the cleaning/re-bolting of Slab Alley by Anders, but I think he went a bit overboard with the bolts on the upper, easy parts, particularly the direct finish from the last tree.
Europa? Given that it's in a little shear zone, you'll never get rid of all the loose crap. Plants love that place, so I think it will re-green itself in a few years, unless someone wants to dedicate her/his life to keeping it clean. Why bother? Let it go back to the wild.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!