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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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May 28, 2014 - 11:49am PT
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The Bible and Christianity are truly moronic. Weak sauce pap.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 28, 2014 - 11:52am PT
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Perhaps you shouldn't follow anyone. Take the lead.
Just a thought.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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May 28, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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Follow Flip and get the strong sauce.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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May 28, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
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He was a preacher fergawdssake. He didn't really go to any mountaintop.
Churf, do you accept the immaculate conception of the Virgin of Guadalupe? Or do you think that it was a useful lie to convert Indians?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 28, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
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Unsurprisingly, a non-trivial percentage of the quotations posted here by The Chief and others are spurious.
For instance, we have no evidence that Washington ever wrote or spoke that "without Bible" meme.
SImply googling and cutting-and-pasting internet meme "quotations" is a good way to make yourself look foolish.
http://www.mountvernon.org/educational-resources/encyclopedia/spurious-quotations
Not that any of it has any bearing upon the original topic.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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May 28, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
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“Religious moderation is the product of secular knowledge and scriptural ignorance.”
― Sam Harris,
Religious moderation is a very dangerous thing; for it provides cover for the extremist within any fringe group and sets the stage for a slippery slope of descendancey into a ridged, repressive, totalitarian religious state. It is time that religious folks apply the same intellectual honesty in their exploration of the truth of their faith that they use in navigating their day to day lives. We are not a Christian Nation, fundamentally speaking. One cannot find CLEAR, unequivocal prescience advocacy of God or divine guiding light in the written instructions for the workings of government. This was done purposely to avoid the faith based corundum which allows people to imagine that their concerns are moral when they are highly immoral - that is, when pressing these concerns inflicts unnecessary and appalling suffering on innocent human beings. This explains why Christians expend more "moral" energy opposing abortion than fighting genocide. It explains why they are more concerned about human embryos than about the lifesaving promise of stem-cell research. And it explains why they can preach against condom use in sub-Saharan Africa while millions die from AIDS there each year.
TY
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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May 28, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
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it's as foolish as the meme of the Marine punching out the gay, atheist, communist, liberal college professor because god was too busy protecting other marines in iraq to smote him with lighting, lol
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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May 28, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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Religious moderation is a very dangerous thing; for it provides cover for the extremist within any fringe group and sets the stage for a slippery slope of descendancey into a ridged, repressive, totalitarian religious state.
Hear, hear.
It also has a way of serving as an excuse or distraction for not acquiring a modern, rock-solid, science education and then coming to terms with this education which is hard-won and can take years.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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May 28, 2014 - 12:51pm PT
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The religious may attempt to absolve themselves of immoral action - marriage equality discrimination, subjugation of women, monetary support of anti-gay violence in Africa and the like, by invoking "God's will", but one is always free to choose, and therefore one is always accountable.
When I see all my newly married gay friends here in WA - people who no longer fear not being able to visit their loved one should critical illness befall them, not being able to pass on their legacy to their children or surviving spouse, or having to pay more in taxes than straight married couples - the list is a long one, there is no doubt in my mind that fundamentalist Christianity attempts to make America a worse place.
In a country already fully stressed at the spectre of medical bankruptcy, job loss, and a host of other daunting threats to our well being, fundamentalist Christians inject much unnecessary added conflict by their timeless efforts to control the lives of others, most especially non-cult members.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 28, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
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Jeez, the Chief's even got klk responding to him.
nothing to do with the chief, specifically, it's just that it's really painful to watch folks making specifically historical claims without doing the kind of source criticism that actual makes historical claims testable.
that's just a stone i roll uphill on pretty much every thread on st that involves history. most folks will ignore it. but like most of my posts, it's aimed more at lurkers than at the actual posters.
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go-B
climber
Cling to what is good!
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May 28, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
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Turning your back on Christ is truly moronic!
Yup!
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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May 28, 2014 - 01:34pm PT
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Propaganda.
Churf, I doubt you will find anyone here ( except me) who wants to outlaw religion. I'm willing to agree to protect freedom of religion as long as y'all agree to protect freedom from religion. Keep it in your clubhouse and out of government as is the Law.
No comment about the Virgin Birth in Guadalupe?
How about Torquemada and the Inquisition?
The Salem Witch Trials?
The Churf cannot debate.
Go-B are you in the god profession? Does your money or status come from special insight into the will of your god?
Debate me you cowards!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 28, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
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Like I posted, appears KLK, according to your thought process, MLK Jr, JFK AND FDR, were foolish individuals at best.
i'm not actually participating in the "religion is good/religion is bad" part of this thread. it's painful enough just to watch.
i was cautioning you and others in this thread about the casual use of internet memes as if they were real historical evidence.
a significant chunk of the "quotes" from historical celebrities that get trotted out in these inatardfests are actually spurious-- that is to say, they are fabrications or misattributions or misquotations or had a first-order of referential meaning very different from what the meme version intends.
this is especially true in the "christian nation" debates, because a number of activists back in the 1980s produced a wide array of quotation manuals filled with inaccurate or spurious quotations that were widely distributed among conservative christian churches and institutions to use in letters to the editor or wherever. despite the fact that many of them have been systematically debunked, they continue to find their way in to the hands of well-meaning but confused folks who paste them up all over the tubes.
that geo washington meme is a notorious example.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 28, 2014 - 02:15pm PT
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Their foundations of morality (religion) and leadership are well known.
"Christianity" was that foundation.
According to many here on ST, "Christianity" is a complete joke and fairy tale.
i'm not getting involved in the "christianity is good/ christianity is bad" debate anymore than i'm getting involved in the "religion" one. but if i were looking for moral exemplars, jfk wouldn't be at the top of my list-- the guy was young, rich and good looking, but morality and ethics (or competence, for that matter) weren't his strong suits.
and atheists do appear to be statistically over-represented here on st. in the us at large, they are an insignificant chunk of the voting population.
the likeliest effect of the vocal presence of atheists here on st is to help reinforce the popular but mistaken belief of christian conservatives that christians are a persecuted minority in the us.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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May 28, 2014 - 02:26pm PT
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Oh, you mean the Catholic hospitals that deny required Obamacare family planning and end of life (where legal) services - basically flaunting the law - for religious reasons?
The ones that are gobbling up other hospitals because their religious tax exempt status grants them a significant competitive advantage?
Those hospitals?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 28, 2014 - 02:26pm PT
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and atheists do appear to be statistically over-represented here on st. in the us at large, they are an insignificant chunk of the voting population.
IF atheists are indeed over-representing on a climbers forum, can you venture a reason why?
is it because atheists like to climb rocks or is it because they lack good moral character
while the percentage of Americans who state with certainty that they have no reason to believe in spirits such as gods, their numbers are growing rapidly and especially among young voters who will become the major voting demographic in the future
far more people would say they are Agnostics or not sure about gods, and recent polling strongly shows that Americans are increasingly less likely to belong to any particular religion
evolution of the reasoning human brain? that's my guess
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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May 28, 2014 - 02:32pm PT
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That, and once you've had a friend die, you can no longer skirt the question as to whether or not you'll ever see them again 'in heaven' or whatever.
Climbers seem to face this issue more often than the general population, perhaps.
I was an atheist before that event happened in my life, but I've heard several accounts where the death of a loved one made all the religious fairy tales come crashing down.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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May 28, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
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And here I always thought the Masons and the Deists founded the United States? Maybe the Anglicans and Presbyterians had a hand in it too, but the rest of 'em? No way.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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May 28, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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The founding fathers had it right when cautioning not to mix religion and politics. After all, likes repel and opposites attract.
Fundamentalists of any religious or political persuasion leave the logic part of my brain screaming for the off switch.
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