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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Patience Adam, I'm getting to you.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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"What would CONVINCE you that you are wrong?"
Show me objective/historical proof that God doesn't exist.
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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I wrote, to you: Fair enough... You can answer the questions I have posed to you.
I do not think you will do your best though, in fact I think you will ignore them, which is why I said your offer is a false front. YOu are predicatble... I know you better than you know yourself, because I used to be you, until I saw the light.
Ignore... Ignore... Deny... Deny...
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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"What would CONVINCE you that you are wrong?"
Show me objective proof that God doesn't exist.
Show me objective proof that I (rrrADAM) am not God.
See how that works? Your thinking, and thus your questions, are flawed.
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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uhemmm....
Uhemmm... There were many, hence the "s" on the end of the word questions.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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add "historical" to that qoute also
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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add "historical" to that qoute also So you are moving the goal post now?
I am God... I can chose any form I like, I was known as "I AM", Jesus, and now rrrADAM. So all of history is about ME.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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...still waiting for proof.
Hey Adam, seriously, drop me an email and I'll do my best for you. Try me.
Gotta go,
G. McCay
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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... I'll do my best for you. Try me. I have "tried you", and predicted that you wouldn't answer a thing.
Like I said, you wouldn't answer anything... You've ignored every question, sans a reply with a non-answer to only one.
Ignore... Ignore... Deny... Deny...
I'd really have a better chance having a discourse with my dog, as at least he truely and genuinely WANTS to learn. You really don't.
You really should be embarrasssed that an atheist who's never met you, can so easily predict your actions, to the tee, after only sharing a few replies with you over the net. That should tell you something, but you are too delusional to see it.
Here's a task for you... You don't even have to reply...
Just ask YOURSELF:
Why is it that I cannot REALLY answer the simple questions he just asked me?
See, it's really this simple...
If you believe that your belief system is reasonable, then you should have no problem reasonably articulating why you think it is.
You really have only 3 options:
1. Reasonably articulate why it is true, correct, or connected to reality.
2. Admit that it is unreasonable, but believe it anyway.
3. Ignore... Ignore... Deny... Deny...
None have done 1...
Very few have had the guts to do 2 (but I truely respect them for it, my wife is one)...
The VAST MAJORITY do 3, yourself included:Gotta go
Please... Prove me wrong.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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like i said, ID spent his career as a cog in a war machine. saving souls is his retirement hobby. i wonder whether his fine soul has even the tiniest twinge of conscience over some of the third world trouncing he was involved in, however remotely from some comfy carrier docked in diego garcia. you know what i think, ID? first thing big J is gonna say to you on this side of the pearly gate is, "howsoever you have done to collateral damage, so you have done unto me". don't bet your soul he won't.
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illusiondweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Tony,
Huh? War Machine? Who? I was a Paramedic in the civilian world and a Navy reservist for eight years with one tour in Iraq, and in those eight years, I never stepped foot on a ship! I think you're mistaking me for someone else. No retirement there nor from Emergency Medicine. A stay at home dad without a job. No glamour here!
God obviously offends you, that's okay, you're not the first. It's the internet big guy, everything will be okay.
I have some gear that is yours as well if you're interested, two ice axes and a slough of screws in particular. Can I help in anyway? Email me if you like.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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There's a reason there is the motto about being powerless about changing someone else's thoughts, feelings, conduct, beliefs. Like they say in NLP, never argue with someone locked into a perspective.
JL
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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What I find most annoying about such contributors, is that they assume none of the rest of us have ever read the Bible for ourselves and that their selective quotations from it are the first time we've ever heard those words or any others from the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures.
They refuse to believe that it is possible to read those very same passages and come to different conclusions than they have. Of course Martin Luther made the same mistake when he assumed that if we all had a Bible to read we would all then agree on what the truth was. 500 years and over a thousand different Christian denominations later, I think that one has been proved false.
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rrrADAM
climber
LBMF
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EVERY single Christian denomination there is split off from another because THEY thought they were more moral and righteous than the group they were splintering from. Every one!
So, we can think of this like a tree, [generally] with Catholicism as its big thick trunk, higher up it splits into 2, the East/West schism, then later, especially in the West, into many thousands of convoluted branches, each getting thinner. Dig into the soil though, and we see that its roots are in other religions and pagan beliefs that predate Jesus and even Judaism, but many won't look that deep... They focus only on their branch.
Many today are on a pretty thin branch. But, of course, they confidently believe that they are more moral and righteous than the rest of the tree... They look back at the tree, dirt, other trees, and all around and say, "Wrong, wrong, wrong! You are all going to Hell!"
Ignore... Ignore... Deny... Deny...
It is the key to maintaining any delusional belief.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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iraq tour--sounds like a war effort to me. they say we've laid so much depleted uranium in the iraq landscape around basra that cancer rates went up 1000 percent. they also say our own GIs get rectal cancer from sitting in abramses made from same. just rumors i've heard--from veterans.
largo--never argue, if you crave the satisfaction of winning--today.
here-hear, rrradam.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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a little lesson in christianity for the "believers" on this thread.
all you have to do is believe? ah, hate to tell you this, but you're not quite reading that right. there is a narrow school of christianity that subscribes to that, mostly uneducated, frenetic airheads who seem to bang off each other in a minor critical mass and melt down.
you see, belief is only the beginning. belief is where you get started. and it won't save your soul unless you follow through on it. there are many pitfalls ahead for believers, and they can come quite easily from the lips of the preacher whispering sweet nothings in your ear. do we have to talk about pedophiliac priests and closet homosexual televangelists?
face it, christianity is hard work. most people really don't want to get into it too far. you need to get a life in this life as well as establishing your retirement account for the next one. if you take the precepts of jesus seriously, they're downright demanding. do i have to cite chapter and verse? read the beatitudes, take up your cross, and get your sorry glutei maximi crucified like he did. oh yea, there are plenty of spiritual freeloaders riding big J's coattails, but they're all second-string saints. and, as i say, be careful about that. don't start salivating about your salvation. it isn't over til it's over.
catholicism makes all this pretty clear to its dismal crew. protestants, back in the day, broke away for a little fresh air. you see, the jesus christ program is a suit that just doesn't fit our dear old human race very well. ever have one of those? you love the thing, but when you put it on, it's tight at the shoulder, shows too much sock or cuff, cramps your girth, whatever, and you know you just don't look good in it. christians tend to avoid mirrors. instead, they're all ears for the compliments they get from fellow thrift shop regulars.
protestantism wasn't the first reformation. mohammed had a pretty good one long before that, and his program fits a lot of people pretty well. protestantism itself started splintering into bits from the outset. but here's a little story about the "right" church to belong to:
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it."
"Why shouldn't I?" he asked.
"Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?"
"Are you religious?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
"Christian."
"Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."
I said: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.
(thanks to the virtual campfire posts for this one)
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climbera5
Trad climber
Sacramento
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One of my favorites Tony, and it does point out the variety of understanding people have about the Bible. As I posted earlier, the Bible was written by man, inspired by God but still written by man. Some expect the Bible to be perfect, infallible, as if written by God himself. Not the case. It was not written to answer all questions nor does it represent itself as having absolute truth. As Christian scholars agree, nowhere does it say that. Therefore we cannot defend that which is incomplete or unknowable.
As a pastor once said, he is a ‘follower’ of the Bible. To say that one believes in something forces them to defend it with all of its imperfections and contradictions.
The history of the bible is fascinating and must be kept in context when quoting scripture. Most, if not all of the authors of the Bible were Jewish, there was no Christian religion at that time. References to past teachings, prophesy, etc. were all based upon the Old Testament. The New Testament is a compilation of letters and writings by Jesus' followers to illuminate and explain Jesus' life and message.
We all enter our search for spiritual fulfillment with prejudice, our own sense of right and wrong, what is moral, ethical, etc. Therefore, we Christians gravitate to the flavor of belief, the denomination that fits our prejudice. I don’t think that’s any more wrong than a Guinness drinker thumbing their nose at a Bud Light fan.
As for these ridiculous questions about asking Jesus for answers. If you honestly believe someone can or does sit down and ‘talk’ with God to get specific answers to foolish questions, then either you’re ignorant, diluted, or just playing everyone for fools. If I did spot someone carrying on a detailed conversation with God, I’d be just as concerned as you. At least with me, God doesn’t work that way.
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Dr F, I think the first five books of the bible are.. same same..Koran. ?
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