Erik Sloan’s Latest Victim – Ten Days After

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Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 29, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
^^^^^^^^ For Pennsylenvy's video link +++++++


I'll repost it here:


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Ryan Tetz

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 30, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
This thread just reinforces to me that we live in a time where you can do nearly anything socially without getting an ass kicking or hard consequence.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:18am PT
That is odd, I do not see Eric Sloan on the CUA list, does he work for the mountaineering school or is an NPS oversight or maybe the rules not apply to woot boy.

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/2014authorizedguidinggroups.pdf
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 31, 2015 - 09:13am PT
Wishing each of you a productive 2016

Well thanks, hoss. It WILL be productive. I'm getting my tools ready right now:


BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Dec 31, 2015 - 10:03am PT
What are the rules about power drills in the park? I believe that designated wilderness begins at 500 ft above the valley floor. That could possibly mean lower routes could use power drills.

I'm not campaigning for them. I'm old school. Just trying to see what the rules are.

He promised to replace the bolts on BOR if they were removed. Has he done that yet?

We had a guy, one of the main climbers in our area, go around and put bolts and chains at the tops of a whole bunch of trad routes. Some didn't mind, but others did. Prior to those lowering stations we just hiked down the back side or downclimbed a 5.7 or 5.8. It wasn't a problem. Those convenience bolts pissed off a lot of people, but they weren't removed.

The guy who placed them was respected, although his techniques weren't. A tough situation. First, you are friends with the guy. Second, you hate what he is doing. It all died away after a while.

Another time, a guidebook author placed chains over a dicy part of an approach to an out of the way area. There was one dicey move that you could do in your tennies, but the fall was a good 70 ft or so into a hidden chasm. Sure enough, one of his students went missing, and he drove up to find him dead in this spot. So he bolted a ten foot or so length of chain at the spot. We didn't like it, but it could have saved a life.

If you go placing bolts every place somebody gets whacked, it can get crazy. Josh goes through this. Look at Double Cross. I climbed it in my teens, and it was easy. I've heard that later, people got hurt on it and bolts sprouted.

I would rather have dumb dead guy instead of bolts on an easy route.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Dec 31, 2015 - 10:18am PT
Um, BASE? The Double Cross thing is a long-running troll joke. No protection bolts have ever been added to DC. If they ever are, they'll last a week or less.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Dec 31, 2015 - 11:36am PT
A few excerpts from Sloan's translation guide (English to Sloaneze)

Tom, you were in rare (and hilarious) form with that post, and that's saying something. :-)

My favorite (hard to choose among them) was:

RETROBOLTED AID PITCH = clean variation

Well done, sir!
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 01:10pm PT
What are the rules about power drills in the park? I believe that designated wilderness begins at 500 ft above the valley floor. That could possibly mean lower routes could use power drills.

Nope.

Bolting Policy & New Routes
The Rules:

Drilling protection bolts for climbing is permitted in Yosemite as long as it is done by hand. Motorized power drills are prohibited. The National Park Service does not inspect, maintain, or repair bolts and other climbing equipment anywhere in the park.

Beyond this simple rule, there is a strong community bolting ethic in Yosemite. If you plan to bolt a new route or alter an existing one, talk with local climbers who are familiar with Yosemite's route history and traditions before permanently altering the cliff face. No one wants to see the rock damaged by bolts being placed and chopped.

"Gardening" (the name given to removing plant life from cracks) is not allowed in Yosemite. Many climbers remove the occasional bit of grass or leaves to place protection or find a finger-lock, but this is nothing compared to the serious damage done establishing a new area.

New Routes:
The damage caused establishing a new route is far greater than that caused by each subsequent party. If you are considering establishing a new route ask yourself, "Is this route worth the damage it will cause?" "Is it a classic line that others will enjoy climbing, or I am simply interested in putting up my own route?" "What will climbers fifty years from now think of this route or this bolt?" There are thousands of established routes in Yosemite already--maybe try a few more of those before making a new mark on Yosemite's Wilderness.

The Reasons:
Most of the Yosemite's climbing areas are in designated Wilderness, and motorized items, including power drills, are not allowed in these areas. In addition to this Congressional mandate, the park has an interest in limiting the impacts from climbing while enabling climbers to enjoy the park. The resulting rule allows climbers the unusual privilege of permanently altering Yosemite's granite cliffs by adding bolts in the location of their choosing, but inherently limits the number of those bolts by requiring that they be hand drilled.

I will add that an old friend who is an experienced climber — and who is also a relatively high-level NPS employee stationed in Colorado — has assured me that a climber caught using a power drill in YNP is quite likely to be ejected from the Park and banned, perhaps permanently.
c wilmot

climber
Dec 31, 2015 - 01:54pm PT
Yosemite does not adhere to the same standards as other national parks do in terms of the wilderness act.
Yos pretty much ignores it in that they use and are reliant on power tools to keep the park running.

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Dec 31, 2015 - 02:14pm PT
Does anyone have proof wootboy is using a powr drill or is it just an assumption?
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 31, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
I believe that Yosemite NP can no longer ban undesirables from the park, owing to a successful constitutional challenge. Anyone know if this is true?

This is why Chongo can come back.

P.S. Happy W00t Year!
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
Yosemite does not adhere to the same standards as other national parks do in terms of the wilderness act.
Yos pretty much ignores it in that they use and are reliant on power tools to keep the park running.

Google is your helpful assistant.

The Park's 1989 Wilderness Stewardship Plan states (p. 13):
Minimum Tool. The Service will use the minimum tool necessary to carry out management and research functions. These tools will be primitive and non-mechanized wherever possible. The tools in Appendix B are the only ones that are approved in the Yosemite wilderness. Exceptions must be approved in writing by the Superintendent.

There are very clear guidelines and no, YNP does not "pretty much ignore it [the US and CA Wilderness Acts]." If you think they do, I expect Earth Justice (formerly the Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund) would be interested to hear about it.
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
Does anyone have proof wootboy is using a powr drill or is it just an assumption?

Multiple people on this very thread have said that they have personally witnessed him using a power drill in YNP.

These are not personal acquaintances of mine and I cannot vouch for them. Others here might be able to do so.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Dec 31, 2015 - 04:09pm PT
Does anyone have proof wootboy is using a powr drill or is it just an assumption


Wootard admitted as much in one of his posts, shown here on McTopo. His diatribe, that time, was to justify and rationalize power drilling as producing better quality holes, compared to hand drilling. He then posited a dementhesis that hand-drilled bolts were weaker, and even went so far as to pull a figure, "30% weaker", from out of his tuchus.

I don't have time to go back and find the reference right now. And the 30% figure might have been 35%, but that was the gist of what Sloan posted.



I wish Erik would get the help he needs to stop drilling. Clearly, he is like a drug addict, unable to stop himself from being self-destructive.




I am happy to hear that Chongo is allowed back in Yosemite. He is the King of the OB-DB boys.



Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Dec 31, 2015 - 04:30pm PT
Herein, Sloan unilaterally nullifies the YNP bolting policy:

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/the-erik-sloan-ethics-thread/111301228__12

Powerdrills? Yawn. Same as Base Jumping, right? No one's doing it I swear. You guys are so silly - nearly everyone putting up routes here(and I'm definitely not putting up routes here) is using power drills. What happened to the thread on ST this spring where the title was 'I saw someone powerdrilling in the Valley yesterday'? What ever happened to that witchhunt?

The NPS going nuts over powerdrills is not the answer - forming groups to research and develop the best bolting practices and equipment is the answer. Just like pot - they're still going crazy about it here in Yosemite, but when I lived briefly in Colorado, people are like 'yeah, what's the big deal'(I don't smoke, so maybe an easy statement to make, haha). Witchhunts for pot smokers and powerdrillers will be later looked at like the NPS feeding the bears - better education is what we need. (I predict that future studies will show that hand drilled bolts are, on average, 25-30% weaker and less safe than powerdrilled holes).

More seriously: Anyone putting up new routes in YNP should be aware that E. Sloan has now publicly told the NPS that they are probably violating YNP rules.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
Well thanks, hoss. It WILL be productive. I'm getting my tools ready right now:


+1 Elcap :)....Me too!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 31, 2015 - 08:06pm PT
^^ an anonymous avatar will NEVER do anything. Ever.
dhayan

climber
culver city, ca
Dec 31, 2015 - 11:17pm PT
I agree with Mike and Ammon as well.
c wilmot

climber
Jan 1, 2016 - 09:02am PT
There are very clear guidelines and no, YNP does not "pretty much ignore it [the US and CA Wilderness Acts]." If you think they do, I expect Earth Justice (formerly the Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund) would be interested to hear about it.

Actually they do ignore it. All those holes you see drilled into the rock on the trails?
Power tools

The trees you see cut on every mile of the 800 miles of trails in Yos

Chainsaws




c wilmot

climber
Jan 1, 2016 - 09:13am PT
Does SAR hand drill their bolts during rescues?
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