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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 17, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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That WAS hilarious, Tom!
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overwatch
climber
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Dec 17, 2015 - 02:21pm PT
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it is playing out there because they are poorly informed.
I have never even looked at that forum and I've been here at least 10 years... maybe more I don't really want to look back through my posting history to find the first one. even though my thousand or so post pales in comparison to some people that have been here as long as I have
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 17, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
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Too funny, Werner!
The Dihedral Wall added bolts present, to me, difficult ethical issues. As an example, the pitch above The Ledge was originally A4, and represented a real aid climbing challenge. In adding the bolts to allow the pitch to be decently protected in free climbing, you greatly diminish the challenge in aid climbing.
I think we all find free climbing a better style than aid climbing, but we old douchbags used to find fewer bolts better style - and better ethics - than more bolts. How to balance these?
With bolts, there's always been one other undercurrent: murdering the impossible, or, as Robbins put it, leaving some monuments to virginity. Free climbing the Dihedral Wall was a massively difficult achievement, but could the Hubers, say, have done it without adding the bolts? If so, should others have waited until they could climb it in their style?
This debate, now more than 60 years old, shows no sign of dying anytime soon.
John
Edited because if I spelled "douchbag' correctly, it comes out d#@&%ebag
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overwatch
climber
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Dec 17, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
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understood, thank you. perhaps some of the eloquent post from here could be posted over there?
well s h i t if the famous K weber says so then we should all just pack it up now
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Dec 17, 2015 - 02:37pm PT
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With bolts, there's always been one other undercurrent: murdering the impossible, or, as Robbins put it, leaving some monuments to virginity.
Robbins also had some things to say regarding clean climbing and minimal impacts, something the sling and etrier crowd largely ignored these days. Bolts can be chopped and replaced, but the holds lost to someone's desire to drive some iron are gone forever. Until the aid community starts addressing this, they'll continue to lose supporters.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 17, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
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The flood gates are open and Sloan is one of many doing this type of crap all over the globe.
True, but the big difference between the guy you saw "tap one in" and ES is that the guy you refer too likely knew that he'd done something wrong and later felt bad about it. ES actually believes that he's setting some new standard that SHOULD be followed.
And THAT is what needs to be endlessly decried.
Werner: LOL!
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Dec 17, 2015 - 03:54pm PT
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K Weber said on Mountain Project:
"I love the ST buffoonery but those old geezers are all keyboard and no action."
Sad truth is he has is backasswards. When the BoR bolts got the chop the pics were posted here on ST. They never made it to Mountain Project.
Its hard watching the debate there, most folks there are so poorly informed. Unfortunately that's where the conversation is actually playing out.
Not that the conversation here does not have value. In fact, the "goods" are here. MP just has a wider audience.
Don't what you've been reading, but it pretty much reads the same on MP as it does on here. A whole lot of people telling ES he's wrong, and one or two people saying he's not and that the detractors are has-beens, never-were, or don't climb in the valley. ST people are just yelling a bit louder than those on MP. Sounds about right with all of us old people and our hearing loss:)
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Dec 17, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
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K Weber said on Mountain Project:
"I love the ST buffoonery but those old geezers are all keyboard and no action."
Can't say that guy is wrong. How many pages and still no parking lot justice? Bachar had the right idea.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 17, 2015 - 06:52pm PT
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Hey, we could sh#t on his ropes!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 17, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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Bachar had the right idea.
Bachar had several right ideas. parking lot violence was not one of them.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Dec 17, 2015 - 11:04pm PT
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"Do your job Jesse and Ben."
Jesse is in TM and Ben left the NPS.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Dec 18, 2015 - 12:41am PT
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Buffoonery?! GEEZERS?!
Look, you little turds over at Mountain Project, we are WAAAAAY more bitchin' over here at McTopo!
Why, I oughta ..... {clunk, bash}
Ooops. Tripped over my wheelchair. Sorry.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 18, 2015 - 03:37am PT
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BITD one had to actually go to the deli to watch climbers self destruct.
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Dec 18, 2015 - 11:26am PT
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Bachar had several right ideas. parking lot violence was not one of them.
Maybe, maybe not? How many fools were still "woot-wooting" it up after a discussion with him?
Lord knows, having civilized talks with D#@&%eWoot is having such a positive effect.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 18, 2015 - 12:04pm PT
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Having been on the receiving end of a judge/jury mob-mentality, I'd strongly advocate not crossing over to the dark side.
If he can be photographed/videoed with a power-drill, that evidence is worth taking to the powers that be. His guidebooks and anything else he does for-pay can be boycotted. There are other creative things that can be done that are non-violent and legal.
In the end, though, if he doesn't give a rip about a vast consensus opposing his tactics, it's hard for me to see that there's any "winning" the "bolt wars." In this country, you are legally allowed to be a sh|thead in many contexts. And getting the powers that be involved in our internal community disputes will invariably bring scrutiny and regulation that we would be better without.
Just my opinion here. I'm not trying to pontificate, just urging caution and restraint.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Dec 18, 2015 - 12:12pm PT
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How many pages and still no parking lot justice? Bachar had the right idea.
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Bachar had several right ideas. parking lot violence was not one of them.
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Maybe, maybe not? How many fools were still "woot-wooting" it up after a discussion with him?
Lord knows, having civilized talks with D#@&%eWoot is having such a positive effect.
As I remember it, Bachar was in no condition to w00t anything as he got knocked out for his lack of tact in the matter. Then he went to the Rangers. How are you remembering it?
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Dec 18, 2015 - 12:24pm PT
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^^^^^^ Thats how I remember it. Somebody was CHAPPED
LOL
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Dec 18, 2015 - 01:52pm PT
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Hopefully any talk of violence or vandalism are just jokes or just talk.
It is a huge step from someone disrespecting a shared resource by adding bolts to going there.
Like I've said to my kids you NEVER have the right to escalate a situation into physical violence. It crosses a very clearly defined line, and you are pretty much always going to be wrong. Of course is someone else strikes first, then it's self defense and you are free to kick ass if needed.
The response for retrobolting is to talk to them (obviously a hopeless case with Sloan) and most appropriately removing said bolts.
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overwatch
climber
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Dec 19, 2015 - 10:46am PT
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Weekend bump to continue the scorn
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