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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 26, 2010 - 03:18am PT
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"I believe Mohammed had peaceful religion in mind."
I respectfully disagree. Are you still claiming christians are peaceful? Laughable in every respect.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 26, 2010 - 04:37am PT
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jenny, do you wanna discuss the marriage practices in the 4 corners area, as described in "Under the Banner of Heaven"?[/
Hi Matt…I read fiction, too...but Jon Krakauer isn’t one of my pet storytellers. After reading three of his bound contrivances, I’ve joined tens of thousands who agree he’s not a reporter, historian or credible social commentator.
Should the FLDS open a cultural center in the four corners, or anywhere else… I promise to be there, waiting in line with questions. Many, including myself, would welcome an objective, solidly researched study based on firsthand participant observation, interviews and surveys.
Should you start a thread discussing LDS marriage practices, I’ll join in…perhaps that’s not what you really want.
But, yes, it IS nice having you back.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Aug 26, 2010 - 06:26am PT
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bluering said What? Not if we buy from Mexico and supplant it with domestic supplies. No Arab oil. Why would we sell?
BECAUSE IT'S AN OPEN MARKET AND PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE MONEY WELCOME TO AMERICA! Are you seriously this dense? Oil is an openly traded commodity. "America's" oil doesn't stay in America unless you want to pass some commie laws mandating that it stay here in which case it will be sold at a higher price since it's not competing with open market oil and then you'd have to pass some more commie laws mandating that it be sold at lowest market value. Is that what you want, bluering? Are you a commie?
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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LEB
Usually the simplest explanation proves to be true.
Muslim silence is unspoken approval. They all want it to spread
over the planet. A few through violent means which is secretly looked
upon with hero worship and envy by the majority of peaceful Muslims.
This actually makes them sleeper cells in our midst ready to aid
the violent terrorist and most cannot be expected to make a phone
call to tip off the authorities when they know something.
There is every reason to believe that Islamic inspired violence will
continue forever.
cc
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:11pm PT
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[edit] ^^^this guy is STILL an idiot^^^
broad strokes?
generalizations?
i can throw out a few about your particular flavor of human, to be sure, no matter what flavor you B.
muslim violence will go on forever?
what about christian violence?
want to spread across the globe?
you mean like the christians and mormons want to?
what about the damn hindus and all this damn yoga we see everywhere these days?
do you think the "Ohm" is anti christian brain washing? (what if it is? IT IS! seriously, i mean it...)
as for silence as unspoken approval, don't get me started on that, in a political thread.
idiot.
[/edit]
bluey-
people who suggest buying oil from here and not there don't understand the global economy, period. you might as well be proposing a solution to the problem of gravity, that's how irrelevant it is where we buy the oil we import.
it's not whether or not I/We/You "buy" from "them", it's whether or not global demand is met by global supply. what's more, nobody that matters agrees with you, which is why we have such a huge military footprint in the middle east, it's not islamo-fascism pal, it's access. if you believe otherwise you are just kidding yourself (or worse).
Jennie-
My point had nothing at all to do with you, the LDS, any author, or Mormons for that matter. My point is that I, like you, can read anything I want. I can also read everything I can find, and at some point I can decide that I know a thing or two, or even decide I know enough to say what is what, but I am not a Mormon, I don't live in the four corners area, nor in SLC...
I also don't live in Mecca, in Teheran, in Islamabad, or in NYC.
And neither do you, or anyone else posting here (NYC probably the exception).
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Aya K
Trad climber
New York
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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//I also don't live in Mecca, in Teheran, in Islamabad, or in NYC.
And neither do you, or anyone else posting here//
I do! NYC I mean... and I don't care if they build it or not. I really don't get why a mosque being built as essentially an expansion of an already existing mosque two long blocks away from the big stupid hole that's still at ground zero is a big deal. Don't all the pundit types have something better to get riled up about? yeesh.
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Aya K
Trad climber
New York
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:32pm PT
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I've been following this thread and don't really have much to comment on re: the mosque beyond what I said, but I do have to ask: LEB, instead of "guessing" all this stuff about Muslims and Islam, how about you go and talk to some and find out for real?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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Muslim silence....
An excellent reason to support this teacher, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, in his effort to build this center, because he HASN'T
been silent. He has spoken out against terrorism. It just appears mainstream America wasn't listening. Or mainstream America can't seem to understand that not all Muslims are for terrorism.
Fatty says he shouldn't be allow to build it because he will be dead soon. More proof that this guy is actually speaking out against terrorism because the terrorist want him dead. He is telling Muslims that they need to learn how to live peacefully with all religions, exactly what the extremists on both sides don't want.
So ask yourselves why some bloggers where able to blow this up into a huge issue when there are already Mosques in the area? Is the real reason because they think it will make some Americans feel bad, Americans who didn't even know it was being built until the bloggers said something. Or is the real reason that some folks don't want peace. They make money by instigating wars.
Then there is that phony excuse that it will bring too many people into the area. LOL, it is NEW YORK CITY. EVERY block is impacted. The world trade centers drew over 50,000 people every day and they want to complain about a few thousand. LOL.
I feel bad for the people who lost folks in 9/11. I lost a close friend. But these are Americans who want to build a cultural center/church. Not for the purpose of worshiping terrorism, but for the purpose of helping people learn to get along. A noble purpose. One Americans should support, even if they hurt.
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Aya K
Trad climber
New York
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
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LEB - I say that you're "guessing" about what Muslims feel and believe because that's what you keep posting. Even in your last post -
"My guess is that they don't approve of violent actions such as bombing the WTC. My guess is also that if they truly practice Islam as the doctrines are put forth they DO believe it is the one "true" religion (Christians have this same hangup, BTW) and want it spread everywhere. "
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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however, we are in a "Clash of Civilization" with much of the Islamic world, many want to convert, kill or enslave non-believers.
Then don't add fuel to the fire by denying good Americans the chance to worship or build what they want. The ground isn't sacred, unless all ground is sacred.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 26, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
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Once that happens they will want to exact their pound of flesh in return and the division between the two sides will grow yet wider apart.
That is just a fear. Some times you have to lance a wound to get it to heal. Denying a Good American, who has spoken out against terrorism and has spoken about the need for Muslims to learn how to live in peace with people of other religions, the chance to build this center, just covers up the wound. One of the best examples of healing by facing your problems happened in South Africa after apartheid, with the forgiveness council. That can't really happen in New York because the people who want to build this center aren't the ones who bombed the towers, but it can show us what can happen if we act courageously.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 26, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
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I have friends in South Africa Lois. And One of my closest friends died in the world trade center. I know about anger and about fear and about the desire for revenge. I have wanted revenge myself.
I don't think that it will be easy to overcome this fear and anger. I just think it is important enough that we go forward instead of backwards. I don't want anger and fear to win and that is what happens if we give up our hard won freedoms. Ground zero is not sacred ground. A terrible terrible thing happened there. Lets not let the terrorist win by giving them what they want.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 26, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
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Those that do not want this mosque built do not understand the principles of our country.
what better place to remember that we are all Americans, no matter Race, color or creed?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 26, 2010 - 02:57pm PT
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AND if you want to convince the rank and file peaceful Muslims that American's are really prejudice against Islam, in general and them, in particular, (i.e. they have been deluding themselves) then you propose to build a mosque at or near ground zero.
This is the kind of thing the naysayers said about the peace and reconciliation process in South Africa. Thankfully there were strong leaders who didn't listen.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 26, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
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...and if YOU ARE A BIGOT ...
you BLAME THEM for:
agitat[ing] the rank and file citizen stir[ing] up a real hornet's nest convinc[ing] the rank and file peaceful Muslims that American's are really prejudice against Islam drop[ing] the bomb and then sit[ing] back and watch[ing] it explode
and wrt:
I say he is a very smart man who is devoted to the ideology of Islam and he knows exactly what he is doing ..........and succeeding very well at it, I might add.
so there you have it.
you have just indicted yourself.
you have just convicted yourself.
"THEY" are equal, and all evil, nothing they say matters, because you know what they think and feel.
the muslims (ALL OF THEM!) are quiet and deceptive evil nazi communist enemies...
but "WE" are not bigots.
doesn't take long to remember why i left this heap.
anyone here who gives this person any space to make these comments is, as she herself describes (projects?) "them", offering silent approval to her bigotry.
if that's the america you want, if that's the world you seek, if that's the reality you are going to create with your own thoughts and intentions...
may God help you, and may God have mercy on your hateful, distrustful, openly discriminatory soul.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 26, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
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"
Then don't add fuel to the fire by denying good Americans the chance to worship or build what they want. The ground isn't sacred, unless all ground is sacred."
ding ding ding.
"In the name of harmony and healing, I believe it is a bad move to build it and an equally bad move to oppose it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Aug 26, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
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Build baby Build!
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
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Aug 26, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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Now, Little Man, take a deep breath, calm down. If you want to hate me, that is fine but you are losing it, Pal.
Pot
Kettle
Black.....
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 26, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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bluey,
if you think that bitch slappin is physical violence then you are more retarded than i thought....
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