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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 13, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
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It's unclear whether the site is at the buildings destroyed in the attacks in 2001 and their aftermath, or simply nearby. Particularly if the site is actually at 'ground zero', perhaps an interfaith chapel and centre would be more appropriate. One accepting of all religions, a place to remember that people of all faiths died, and a statement to the world of American tolerance, freedom and inclusiveness.
If the site is not at 'ground zero', then what is appropriate seems very context and motivation sensitive, and there isn't enough information to comment.
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Gene
Social climber
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Jul 13, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
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I think it is fine for anyone to worship wherever they can.
As far as the Temecula mosque is concerned, I hardly see why the Rev. Rench objects to a house of worship in his neighborhood. His assertion that the mosque would be too large for the site is somewhat less than the truth. The proposed mosque has a building to land coverage ratio of only 14%. That's light, even for places of worship. A similar land use in terms of building coverage ratio and parking needs is retail, which typically runs about 25% to 40% depending on site size.
EDIT:
If it was in fact part of the new Freedom Towers I would be outraged.
If it were a portion of the complex why would you be outraged?
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
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Don't you think it would be the essence of who we are as Americans to allow freedom of religion?
The average American muslim is as disgusted by what happened as we are.
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 13, 2010 - 07:41pm PT
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My first reaction was that allowing a Mosque nearby is a good symbol of religious tolerance. It shows America's intent to remain open despite attackers who claim religion as the banner for their negative behavior.
On that level, I very much like the ideals of America and separation of church and state. In terms of folks who would see it as a sort of Islamic "victory" like a flag being raised on enemy soil... well we can't control folks who choose to see the world in a combative way.
To the extent that it is intended as a symbol to Islamic radicals that America is not "the enemy," it may seem like a trite symbol given the decades of obnoxious behavior of the U.S. in the mid-east.
But hey, we can't change the past. All we can do is deal with the present and make a better future.
I say build the mosque, and American haters, give it up. This is not about Islam against America.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 13, 2010 - 07:53pm PT
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Who is funding all these new mosques??? Especially in high profile places?
And it ain't racism to be opposed to a mosque run by a radical. Look at the guy behind the mosque....follow the money.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 13, 2010 - 07:54pm PT
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Ya know, there are grade schools in this country who dont even teach about 911 becuase "they dont want to bring up ill feelings". True story. Please name those schools, including location. It seems possible that there is a private, parochial Muslim elementary school somewhere that does what you say, but even that seems improbable.
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
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C'mon Ron, I see it as a beacon of acceptance and equality. As someone else said, the extremists see what they want to see. If we didn't allow it, they'd be up in arms about the supresion (sp) of their chosen religion.
We're talking America here, not the Middle East. Americans should be able to worship there, be it Hare Krishna, Jew, Catholic, Right Wing Christian, whatever...
It is a place with a horrible tragedy associated with it. Let people of all religions go there to pray, it might just bring some harmony, which is in short supply these days.
Peace-
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:02pm PT
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It is a place with a horrible tragedy associated with it. Let people of all religions go there to pray, it might just bring some harmony, which is in short supply these days.
Peace-
Ricardo, as long as they're all peaceful religions with EQUAL representation in that space, sure, that's fine. Isn't it weird that a mosque is the first to apply for that particular locale?
I know...you'll say they're just trying to "reach out" and "mend the wounds", but look up the dude behind it....hold on, I'll find it.
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2010 - 08:11pm PT
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Fattrad, for once I agree with you.
However, isn't it common practice for christians to convert others? I've been told more than once that I'm going to hell if I die a nonbeliever.
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Gene
Social climber
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:13pm PT
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jihadwatch.org
Yeah. That's the ticket. Come on Bluey. Don't make a parody of your self.
g
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apogee
climber
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:13pm PT
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Is this thread intended as a magnet for all muslim-hating (fearing) ST'ers?
If so, it's working....a couple of the most muslim-paranoid have been sucked right in....good work!
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
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Blue,
I am dumber for having read that. Nice work finding the hate groups out there though.
High five!
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Gene
Social climber
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:19pm PT
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Our country needs to continue to have an open door policy, but only if you adhere to our values.
Does this include to whom we worship and offer prayers?
g
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:34pm PT
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Gene and Ricardo, you're the fools, but not directly. It's a lack of honesty in our press to actually cover ALL opinions and statements.
Would you not agree?
Do you dispute the JihadWatch quotes as being false? Untrue? Fabricated?
Yet, you're probably be really anxious to jump on a Christian saying that Muslims need to convert to be saved, right?
I disagree with both notions. Seek God and seek a true life. Don't hate the others.....
Kinda weak to attack my source without a valid counter argument....Am I really wrong?
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
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This country is founded on Freedom of Religion, Speech, etc. The Muslim community did not attack America, a fundamentalist fraction of idiots attacked us. Lumping them in with the Muslim faith is narrow minded and not what our Constitution is founded on.
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Gene
Social climber
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Jul 13, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
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The most important and precious thing I have is to think how I think, to believe in what I hold true, and to be able to communicate it as I see fit, with the obvious caveat that I have no right to kill, harm or otherwise limit others in the same endeavor.
How can anyone support denying the same to others who travel a different road? When you limit the rights of others, you limit your own rights. Do you really want the dominant culture to define what, when, where and how you can worship or who you can hang with? To assert that some sort of monolithic Islam wants to put its boot on your neck is absurd.
g
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
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Blue,
I'm no fool. Reading the Jihadwatch link was really annoying. It's obvious that there is spin on every quote that was in bold.
And for full disclosure, I was raised Roman Catholic, was an altar boy (f you, no snide comments), confirmed, the works. However, I'm as spiritual as they come these days, just agnostic.
I just can't get the us vs them thing when we're talking about Americans. Yes, a minority of muslims hate Americans, but a minority of Americans hate muslims. We're talking about good, hard working American people who have a religion different than ours, yet has the same base ethics as western religion.
I'm not talking extremists, I'm talking about our fellow Americans.
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