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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:03pm PT
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"There has never been ONE case were a taser caused death, never. It has been found to be a contributing factor but never the cause."
Huh?
What maner of causation do you speak of? You mean a taser might have triggered an existing condition?
The question remains: If the vic was NOT tasered, would he have died right then and there? If not, the taser is what's called the "efficient cause."
JL
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:07pm PT
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Right! Powers, you tool.
Didn't you hear me?
There was one last week less than ten miles from where I sit.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
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Fatty,
after going through the whole process of successfully suing cops for violating my civil rights under color of authority in federal court, and watching them buy their way out of what would put anybody ELSE away for years for chump change, you are joking with the wrong climber.
Let it be.
Powers is tool enough.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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Ron
I know steven... trust me lol. He ain't no tool. I know its nice to use a push broom to paint the mona lisa, and I'm not trying to sound cliche but.... Steven is no tool.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:43pm PT
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OK then GD,
maybe you can make Brian Cardall come back to life.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
I don't even know any more
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Jun 17, 2009 - 12:10am PT
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"In the past week a local cop here tased a mentally disturbed 32 year old man who collapsed and died."
I'll see you and raise you:
(source; http://www.4029tv.com/news/7889892/detail.html);
SPRINGDALE, Ark. -- Four days after a state trooper shot and killed a mentally disabled Springdale man, Arkansas State Police finally broke their silence about the investigation.
Mother: Hamley "Mentally Handicapped" | ALSO: Shootings Raise Questions | Discuss: Was Shooting Justified? Some of the highest-ranking members of the Arkansas State Police held a news conference Friday afternoon to shed some light on exactly what happened earlier this week.
Police said they thought they were dealing with an escaped fugitive on the side of the road when a state trooper shot and killed Joseph Erin Hamley, 21. Hamley was not armed, and the entire incident lasted only four minutes, according to authorities.
Troopers were first called to Highway 412 on Tuesday after receiving calls about a possible sighting of Michigan fugitive Adam Lee Leadford. When the first trooper arrived on the scene, according to sources, he shouted out Leadford's name, and Hamley turned around.
One of the troopers then started telling Hamley to get on the ground.
State police said Hamley did not follow directions and kept taking his hands in and out of his pockets. They said that shortly after Trooper Larry Norman arrived on the scene, Hamley finally got down on the ground on his back.
That's when police started approaching Hamley, trying to handcuff him.
State police said Hamley made a movement and officers thought he was reaching for a gun. Norman was armed with a shotgun and fired one shot that killed the 21-year-old.
"We're going to have days and weeks and years to critique ourselves, and I want to reassure you and the public up here that we're going to learn some lessons on this, and we're going to put in place whatever we deem necessary," said Arkansas State Police Col. Steve Dozier.
As to why less-than-lethal force was used, authorities said Norman fired a shot across two lanes of the highway, a distance too far away to use a Taser gun.
State police said their case file should be finished by March 15 and will be submitted to the prosecutor's office. Benton County prosecutor Robin Green will make the final decision as to whether the shooting was justified.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 17, 2009 - 12:13pm PT
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I don't need anyone to "protect" my safety(an illusion) or my gear.
I rely on me. That's really all anyone has.
Tools..........Whatever.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 17, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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You get what you pay for.
If you want a well trained police force that is held to a high professional standard (not many citizens don't) then you have to be willing to pay for it.
The trouble is that people always want more than they pay for so they pinch pennies in budgets but they still expect first class service.
If we paid cops six figure salaries we could choose among the best of the best and the Barney Fifes would have to take a hike.
You get what you pay for. You pay for a Fife and thats what you're likely to get.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 17, 2009 - 12:35pm PT
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Cops get paid damn good money around here.
The problem is many of the people who want to be cops should not be cops. The profession appeals to those who want to control others, or make up for personal shortcomings.
The majority of cops are good people and in it for the right reasons - Andy Taylors. But there are too many in it for the power trip - Barney Fifes.
It's human nature to look for the controversial, negative situations, just watch the daily news. It is nice when you hear about the cop that went out of the way to rescue a kitten, or deliver a baby, but it's very important to make people aware of the abuses of power, so there is public outrage and it keeps it in check.
I am probably more digusted when illegal cop actions are swept under the rug by the department, or investigations stonewalled than the actions themselves. And it happens all the time. That's why we need videos, publicity, and threads such as this so that type of behavior is not tolerated.
It also pisses me off when I hear about things like the Wendy's Drive thru, they say the cop did nothing wrong, but the victim gets $60,000 of taxpayer money. Bullsh#t. Where's the personal responsibility from the cop for that.
I keep a low profile, talk to cops with respect, and have never been tooled. Most cops I run into are cool, but I have had to bite my tongue and laugh at Mr. Mirrored Sunglasses Tool under my breath, knowing a power tripper was just waiting for an excuse to act like an asshat.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jun 17, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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It seems to me that the biggest problem is that this profession attracts not only upstanding moral people, but also exactly the type of people that we don't need in that position, mainly power hungry, chip on their shoulder bullys. It is the job of each department to weed out these types in their hiring process and closely monitor those in their ranks that may show these tendencies.
I think that probably a lot of departments do a good job of this, but many of the large ones (I'm thinking LA) have such a strong "protect their own" unwritten policy, that this oversight gets lost. This kind of oversight needs to come not only from top down management policies, but also from outside groups that can look at personnel objectively and with the teeth to take the appropriate action when neccessary.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
slowly dying in the OC
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Jun 17, 2009 - 02:45pm PT
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I have no problem with most cops. I have known and worked with many that are fine upstanding people (just like any profession). There are some, however, that have a questionable motivation (again, just like any profession). The problem with questionable people who get into law enforcement is the great blue wall. Departments, unions, and the brotherhood of the badge will protect those individuals. There is a lot at stake here: departments and cities have serious financial exposure if the exploits of some of these folks become public.
You would think that good cops would want the bad ones weeded out. After all, the bad ones taint the good ones. Unfortunately, there is a bit of an “us vs. them” attitude throughout law enforcement. I’ve seen it from the inside; I recognize it on the outside. They protect their own. An accusation against a bad cop is an accusation against all cops.
Law enforcement needs to get beyond this if they want their image to improve.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
slowly dying in the OC
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Jun 17, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
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Except for the ex-Sheriff in OC, CA. Don't want to hang around him; something bad might rub off on ya.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 18, 2009 - 12:28am PT
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pokrajac, you might be a physicist but you don't know diddly.
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