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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Aug 20, 2008 - 08:33pm PT
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I'm off shortly, maybe see yous on the plastic.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 21, 2008 - 12:35am PT
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"I think that keeping a relationship going is tough. If you're both climbers, the further complications are negligble and fractal to the main task at hand. "
I would agree, although the one I am in has been the easiest yet, at least for the past 11 years. I would bend your premise by suggesting a look again at the white elephant in the room - most climbers who are out there taking climbing very seriously, busting the hard routes, taking the big road trips - they're not relationship material. Its not like the relationship part is so much tougher than climbing, it's that the type I speak of is just so ill equipped to handle even the simplest parts of a relationship - they become like El Cap squared.
I love hanging out in places like Yosemite and J-Tree where I can get in touch with my own past in this way - to hang out with a bunch of celibate nut cases out there living large on the big climbs. I'd take one of these guys with me on a climb any day over some hot female. When I climb, I want to go do man stuff. I want to be able to release and live out those primal emotions and instincts, like lions chasing raw zebra meat - I'm talking about a climbing adventure you're not going to get with someone you're having sex with and saying "I love you sweetie" to. I want someone with me on the big routes who would tackle a grizzly bear and butt f**k that thing into submission if that's what the team needed done. It's a need I never got satisfied in a relationship, and I have dated some very strong female climbers.
That said, my other needs are far more "normal", so I found the pool of available women a lot larger and more likely to net a match when I started looking beyond climbers - ie, find someone like my mom - who puts up with my sh#t.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Aug 21, 2008 - 12:41am PT
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commitment...worked for us
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Aug 21, 2008 - 01:31am PT
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I try to take the important things I do, seriously, and myself not so, at all. Then there is the ego/ambition conundrum... We're all working on this, It seems to me that important shared moments have a lot more value than various landmark 'achievements'.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 21, 2008 - 01:33am PT
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If your other does not climb, then they should be down with solo weekends of frequent nature.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 21, 2008 - 07:14am PT
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I may be in my mid 40's when I finally make it up the Salathe
No worries Paul so was Salathe!
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 21, 2008 - 11:27am PT
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I like this thread. My contributions:
1) For a relationship to work well, both individuals need to put priority (i.e. invest time and energy) on the relationship and have sufficient skills (either through lucky upbringing in an emotionally well-adjusted family, or through difficult experiences, soul searching, and effort at emotional growth, getting past negative patterns that block our ability to give honest appreciation, compassion, and love to ourselves and the other)
2) Having common passions is an important element in a relationship. This helps keep you together through difficult times. It's nice to feel like you're both getting recharged and living the life you want to live, while still being with the other person. Living life, separate and together at the same time. Like having your cake and eating it too.
3) There are many facets to my personality, and the more of these I can match with a single person the better. I spent a lot of years and built a life on just a few matches with someone, and it led to a LOT of hard work, a lot of compromise, a lot of heartache, and a lot of both of us feeling like the other didn't care. The more you can find someone who matches more of your personality facets, the more that the "work" starts to feel like something you just want to do, and less like a chore.
4) There must be women out there who periodically crave the same sort of grim climbing adventures as I do... but there are enough guys out there with whom I can have these experiences that I don't feel this is something "missing" in a love relationship. I don't consider this part of the "holy grail". I am very pleased with a love relationship where my partner has a deep passionate and spiritual connection to nature, and they climb because they want to be there for themselves, not because they're trying to make me happy. If they climb at more or less the same technical level, this means we can both enjoy feeling challenged on the same climbs, and I think that's an extra level of bonding opportunity.
5) Taking things a notch deeper on the "I love you sweetie" vs. butt-screwing grizzlies and leading scary run-out pitches....
When I climb in those modes, part (not all) of the energy and passion comes from a negative pattern of not valuing my life, feeling like I have to suffer or work hard to earn acceptance and love. The more the struggle, the more satisfying the experience. Surviving the struggle is part of the spiritual catharsis. I'm not sure how much of this I think is a good thing (like venting out the negative energy) or how much it is feeding the demon to help it grow. It's a fuzzy line that depends on how much risk I'm taking in a given climbing situation. Like putting your hands out to get warmed by a fire... the challenge is to find that spot close enough to feel the radiant energy, and safely distant to avoid getting burned.
In relationships, I have a pattern of valuing others more than myself. So in a climbing love relationship, I would never want to expose the other to the same scary situations to which I expose myself. Lately I've had a preview of this and realized this truth about myself more fully... for me right now, it's important to have the two types of climbing experiences be separate: those where we bond in a love relationship and enjoy a relatively mellow (even if climbing is technically challenging for both of us) and beautiful time together; and "boys night out" where we look for grizzlies and scary leads and "adventure".
My personality is growing and changing. As I become more comfortable valuing and appreciating myself, perhaps I will feel less desire for grizzly screwing and scary leading, and I will feel less need for a type of climbing that takes me away from a relationship. But I think a little away time is healthy, and I don't sweat this issue either way.
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Pewf
climber
nederland
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Aug 21, 2008 - 02:03pm PT
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JLP said:
"When I climb, I want to go do man stuff. I want to be able to release and live out those primal emotions and instincts, like lions chasing raw zebra meat - I'm talking about a climbing adventure you're not going to get with someone you're having sex with and saying "I love you sweetie" to."
Good gracious. No wonder you can't imagine a relationship between two talented and driven climbers working. Seems to me you probably wouldn't be able to see a woman as your equal in such a manly pursuit. And why on earth would a self-respecting badass female climber want to have anything to do with this sort of attitude?
Maybe I'm just reading you wrong, but sheesh...
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Aug 21, 2008 - 02:43pm PT
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I'm waiting on my intervention....
Of love!!
HAHAHA
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Aug 21, 2008 - 02:45pm PT
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Homosexuality cures 80% of this crap. Try it... you'll like it!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 21, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
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Haha! Demanda speaks to the troll. The attitude in that post is exactly that - to repel the female. What is so different when a women says she wants to climb with other women to get in touch with all that female stuff? It's the same thing. There is a good reason why the other sex doesn't get invited. This thread has reinforced exactly that to me - the importance of the same-sex climbing relationships. Smell the testosterone babe, you know you love it.
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Pewf
climber
nederland
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Aug 21, 2008 - 08:06pm PT
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Oh damnit.
Well, I guess I was too busy planning my next all-female ascent to watch for the hook. We're trying to figure out how all seven of us are going to manage to go to the bathroom together on those little belay stances.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2008 - 08:11pm PT
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"I want to be able to release and live out those primal emotions and instincts, like lions chasing raw zebra meat."
Isn't it the lionesses that do most of the hunting, while the males lounge around, scratch and lick themselves, and roar?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Aug 21, 2008 - 08:44pm PT
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That was beautiful, Pewf.
I love your sense of whatever it is you have there.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 22, 2008 - 01:07am PT
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I used to climb with me Mum, but it was strictly platonic.
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10b4me
climber
the gray bands
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my last two girlfriends were climbers. one was a better climber than I was. The other one was about equal. I think it's great if couples have common outdoor hobbies. IMO a relationship works best when you don't have to work at it. things even out in the end.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Read most of the Thread, but not every word in entirety. I'm sticking to the Thread Title, Climbing Relationships.
Having loved and married a hard core climber I think that it is a real relationship challenge.
There are many senarios, ours was he loved climbing and wanted to be the best he could. This great love of his happened after we were married with kids.
After considering every aspect of my choices I chose to support him to the best of my ability. Not an easy choice for a young wife and mom to arrive at.
He spent ALOT of time at his job...then working out for climbing, then climbing and also trying to invent things for climbing.
But in the end his climbing enriched our whole families lives.
In the end it brought me great friends, you all, even tho he is now gone. So I gave up some jazz. He lived his dream, died early and I still have much to do and live.
Life seems to work out if you love and support the ones you love. From my perspective. lrl
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MisterE
Social climber
My Inner Nut
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Nice post, Lynne. Really well put. You have such a great take on things.
Thanks
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Well thanks Mr. E. Pro cause I've been a few turns on this great planet. Cheers for a great evening! lrl
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