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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 22, 2008 - 12:22am PT
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We all sometimes wonder where she's been, and is.
Noah and wife went on the ark with their children and spouses thereof. Even I know that!
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Jun 22, 2008 - 12:26am PT
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100 Gay couples were wed in large ceremony in PS today. The streets were blocked off to accommodate the families and friends. These folks are so stoked to have their commitment of love for each other recognized by the law.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 22, 2008 - 12:29am PT
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I'm pretty sure that they fed heathens and pagans to the carnivores on the ark. Maybe other people they didn't like, too.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 12:33am PT
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Doug's scripture (thanks to my Sanskrit training) meant "Do as you wish/will"
Folks who look to ancient scripture for the rule of law run into trouble.
After all, it's been pointed out that Islam's, through Mohammed, rules about marriage and women were actually a REFORM, at the time. They gave women more rights and restricted marriage more than it was previously.
But because of hanging on to the letter of the law, what used to be a reform has become an abuse. The Christians complain about Islam and then do the same thing.
Safest to apply the law of Love to things and worry about your own morality before restricting what other's do. It's easy to be moral about other people's actions.
If gays getting married offends religion, let's get politics out of the marriage business and religions can decide among their own ranks who can get married.
The problem is, marriage has become a legal, political contract with implications for inheritance, sick visitation and insurance, and thus the issue of how alternative people can be fairly treated becomes an issue.
peace
Karl
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Jun 22, 2008 - 12:43am PT
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"Do as you wish/will"
A fair interpretation. I've seen a number of interpretations but they all essentially say just that.
It's from the 18th chapter of the Bhagavadgita. After over 600 verse's where Krishna is telling Arjuna what he should do he finishes up by saying , "Just as you desire, do that"
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 22, 2008 - 12:55am PT
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"Karl, the already existing "Civil Union" accomplishes the same thing."
Almost but not quite. Federal rules keep civil union couples from receiving federal benefits such as social security. Plus there are no federal tax breaks for civil union couples. So they do get some benefits and protections, they do not get all of them.
It is about equality.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 01:09am PT
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dirtbag - here here
who gives a shot?
Move on
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 01:35am PT
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Jody is like the moon. He goes away, but eventually comes back, little by little until his tide creates lunatics who eventually eclipse him out of dodge, only to repeat the cycle again and again.
Jody bro, you're getting full on yourself again!
peace
karl
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 22, 2008 - 01:42am PT
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"who gives a ---"
I'll tell you why I give a hoot. It is because the religious right use this issue to decide who to vote for. Republicans claim that they are the most religious because they don't support gay marriage, so what ends up happening is that we get another George Bush.
Another reason I give a hoot is because it makes God look cruel. Humans tend to confuse how religions acts with what God is really like. If religious are uptight and cruel, then God must be also. So when Christians claim to be loving and then treat a group of humans as unequals in the sight of the law, it gives God a figurative black eye. Sounds weird, but it is true. Remembering the America is considered to be a Christian nation, whether it is or isn't.
So I have two reasons for supporting gay marriage, or at least an equal civil union. One is that I think it is a terrible reason to vote for someone or not vote for a different person based on their views on gay marriage and two it makes God look bad because most folks aren't able to separate out their feelings about God from their understandings and relationship with religion.
I honestly do not think that Jesus would care whether gay couples got federal benefits, so why keep them from having it. Treat them equally, making them follow the same rules of marriage and divorce that heterosexual couples face and let God determine what Karma they are creating.
Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. Romans 12:19. If God sees it as a perversion, then let God decide the punishment. If it harms anyone, it only harms the people involved, so there is no good reason to outlaw it. That is much different from such things as having sexual relations with a child.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 02:21am PT
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Nice post Moose man!
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
Meyers,CA
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Jun 22, 2008 - 02:37am PT
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Moosie,
Thanks for a concise response to something I feel strongly about!
If folks who happen to want to get married are gay, LET THEM!!!
These folks are people just like you and me and deserve the same legal protections.
Any argument countering my opinion is to me both bigoted and invalid.
Homophobes are closed minded,
Brandon-
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
Meyers,CA
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Jun 22, 2008 - 03:49am PT
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So Jody,
Nothing but respect for you as a person but (and I know this has been stated a million times) , what if your child were gay? Would you not want the same rights and protections for him or her?
A child who feels as if this is who they are should not face hurdles that set them back.
Rather, these people should be given the same rights as us, being gay does not make one inferior, only different; and therefore confusing to some.
I apologize for calling all naysayers homophobes and bigots, however, I stand firm to my belief that a gay person should be granted the same rights as their straight counterparts.
In my mind, a human being is a human bring and there is absolutely no reason to treat people as less than Human Beings.
To me, gay, straight, agnostic, devout... all humang beings and should be both treated as such and guarenteed sights as such.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 11:39am PT
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Jody
"How does not condoning homosexual behavior make me a homophobe? "
You don't have to condone anyone's behavior to offer them equal rights. The same arguments were used in preventing couples of mixed race from marrying.
Heck, when they were feeding Christians to lions in Rome, there was probably some guy claiming the right to persecute them because they ate human flesh and drank blood.
PEace
Karl
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Jun 22, 2008 - 01:49pm PT
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good post Moosie...
quotes from the bible > >that some of you bibleboys seem to over look.
I Jn 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?
Matt 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Job 20:4-5
4 Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth,
5 That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the
hypocrite but for a moment?
Job 27:4
4 My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
Job 27:8
8 For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained,
when God taketh away his soul?
Prov 11:9
9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through
knowledge shall the just be delivered.
Matt 7:1
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luke 6:46
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luke 6:31
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them
likewise.
Luke 6:36
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Matt 5:43-44
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully
use you, and persecute you;
Matt 19:19
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour
as thyself.
Luke 6:27
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them
which hate you,
John 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another;
as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Gal 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt
love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:25
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
1Thes 3:12
12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward
another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:
1Thes 4:8
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath
also given unto us his holy Spirit.
1 Pet 2:17
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
1 Pet 3:8
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another,
love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
I Jn 3:11
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we
should love one another.
I Jn 3:14
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love
the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
I Jn 3:23
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of
his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us
commandment.
I Jn 4:7
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one
that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
I Jn 4:11
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
I Jn 4:12
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God
dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
I Jn 4:16
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.
God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and
God in him.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 02:58pm PT
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Great post Nita. I also like when Jesus said something like "how you treat the least among you, that's how you are treating me."
Want those sinners to look toward the Spirit instead of resenting the religious folks? Treat em with Love and Respect and quit judging them so hard.
Peace
Karl
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andanother
climber
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Jun 22, 2008 - 03:09pm PT
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In order to be religious, you have to ignore and/or contradict certain parts of the Bible. That’s the one common theme among all religious people.
Yeah, the Bible says all of those nice things. But, as Jody pointed out, it also says that homosexuality is wrong.
In the end, the definitions of “morality” and “sin” all come down to the individual person. They try to blame it on their religion, but it’s really their own personality that is forming their opinions.
It’s much easier to be hateful than it is to be understanding. And that’s why religion gets such a bad rap these days. The majority of religious people focus in on the hateful passages in the bible, and ignore all of the good things it tries to teach.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Jun 22, 2008 - 03:14pm PT
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It might be best if both sides in this issue set the Bible aside. The Bible allows one to support just about any position taken. It's rife with inconsistencies and contradictions.
An appeal to the California SC (my understanding)has been submitted to remove the November ballot issue vis a vis the Gay Marriage decision.
Next controversial issue coming our way will be legalization of polygamy and polyandry. If you doubt this, reflect on the history of the Gay Marriage issue. The identical arguments can apply based partly on the right to Privacy etc.
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andanother
climber
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Jun 22, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
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"Do you have any numbers to back up this type of bigoted statement. "
Nope. I just read it in a book once. Instead of forming my opinions based on common sense, I just blindly agree with everything in the book.
Oddly enough, it also says that religious people are kind, thoughtful and compassionate. It also says that I should treat them with respect. But then it says they are all sinners, and should be spit upon.
I wish I was able to simply go with my gut instinct on this matter, but the book says otherwise. Well, at least SOME parts of the book. It's so confusing!
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andanother
climber
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Jun 22, 2008 - 03:47pm PT
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LEB, you're right that it takes time. Right now god is busy smiting the Midwesterners for their gluttonous ways. California is going to have a HUGE earthquake sometime in the next 1000 years or so, and it will all be thanks to the queers!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 22, 2008 - 03:49pm PT
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Yeah Jody, but Jesus did condone paying taxes to the sinful Romans with their violent occupying army. Separation of church and state, started with Jesus and it's still a good idea.
Peace
Karl
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