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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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May 28, 2008 - 02:07pm PT
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This is some funny stuff. Some dude gets his car opened up by NPS rangers. But he refuses to say why - food? outstanding warrant? looks abandoned? been rotting on the side of the road for a month? the whole thing is made up? perhaps you could supply a police report number?
Then he wants permits. Which is hysterically ironic. He complains about government invading his privacy, so the solution? More government.
Lolz.
I can has Troll?
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Doug Buchanan
Mountain climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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May 28, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
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For highly useful knowledge, if you ask the questions to learn the knowledge.....
All government permit systems are fraudulent and imposed in criminal violation of prevailing law (fraudulent use of power of office). Eventually the dumbed-down Americans will belatedly figure it out, and laugh themselves to tears at the ignorance of their government-compliant parents.
An action is either lawful, for which no permission (permit) can be lawfully demanded, or unlawful, for which no permission can be lawfully granted.
One can expressly refuse to accept the liability of a compelled benefit, as done on public record by commonly intelligent people, to make fools of all those who suggest or support permit systems.
There is no greater comedy than the US Police State of unquestioning fools fooling unquestioning fools.
Enjoy the show.
DougBuchanan.com
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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May 28, 2008 - 03:10pm PT
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Doug, that's one hellava website you've got going there.
You must have some time on your hands...
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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May 28, 2008 - 03:18pm PT
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Doug, checked out your website. Heres my question: WTF?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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May 28, 2008 - 03:21pm PT
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Bohab?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 28, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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If there was a permit that stated "I plan on going up Salethe. I will be gone for XX days. If not returned by such and such a date, send help, you know where I'll be"....
Jingy, there is no need for a special permit system to accomplish what you are seeking, just go get a wilderness permit. And they are free. End of story.
As far as communication while on the wall. Yeah, I guess Yosemite is just another city, and El Cap just another block. Man-o-mighty, we are living in the Now generation!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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May 28, 2008 - 06:14pm PT
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k-man - Bohab 18 up, 87 down
A habitually borring person, a flake.
by anonymous Jul 17, 2003 email it 0 comments
Looks like the no's have it! LOL
This post has been anything but boring for me?
Next?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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May 29, 2008 - 02:19am PT
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"If there was a permit that stated "I plan on going up Salethe. I will be gone for XX days. If not returned by such and such a date, send help, you know where I'll be"....
Jingy, that is not how permits work. They don't require you to check back in after the climb. Even if you have a permit, they won't go looking for you unless someone reports you missing.
Don't you have any family or friends you can trust? They typically fill this role. If not, I'm sure that if you stop by the SAR site at Camp 4 you can get someone to help you with this, without any need for a permit.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 29, 2008 - 07:19am PT
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You guys are darn lucky to be allowed to camp on the walls. Seems like walls are the only place in the park that you can camp for free without a permit. I remember in jellystone we allways had to get a permit to go hikeing and camping.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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May 29, 2008 - 05:54pm PT
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Whoa Nelly!!
What a thread! It doesn’t take much to detect a little apprehension and confusion about the purpose of a permit system. I apologize for being late on this. It has been a busy week here for Yosemite Climbing Management.
In Yosemite you are required to have a permit for any overnight Wilderness use with the exception of overnight climbs. They cost a grand total of ….$0.00.
Their primary purpose is to help protect wilderness areas by encouraging the dispersal of use, and by educating the wilderness traveler on “Leave No Trace” outdoor ethics as well as inform them about Park Regulations concerning the areas they will be visiting.
We do use permits to gain information about missing persons, but we never require folks to leave anything on their vehicle to prove they are legit.
In Yosemite Valley, Wilderness designation starts at the 4200’ contour line. So essentially anytime you bivy on a wall you are in Wilderness.
The idea of instituting a Wilderness permit system for climbing has been floated by Yosemite NP several times, and is a realistic possibility. Although I doubt anything like that would occur in the next several years.
Salmanizer you say,
“Permits lead to fees, fines and further regulation.
I'm supprised that's not obvious to you.”
That is just not true in this case.
Here is one (rough) idea of how a Climbing Wilderness Permit system would work:
A Wilderness Climbing Permit would be similar to any Wilderness permit. Right now they are free, and everyone I know in Wilderness Management is against fees…very much for the same reason you folks are. All climbing specific regulations are there to protect the resource and the wilderness experience. Disposal of Human Waste. Food Storage. Littering. Bolting. Use of Fixed Lines. Peregrine Falcon Closures. Etc… Permits would not change what would be regulated outside of being required to obtain your free permit at the Wilderness Center on the way back from picking up chips and beer at Degnan’s.
Climbing permits would not limit what you could climb. Rather they would inform you which routes were already crowded. For example how many parties plan to climb the Nose the week you wanted? How about Salathe? Oh good we’ll go for that instead. If you planned to climb something in 4 days and took 6 or 7 or 8 days you wouldn’t be fined.
For the NPS purposes it would be a way to make sure climbers knew that they are required to pack out Human Waste, to hang their food well beyond a bear’s reach, bolting regulations, etc.
It would also be useful for obtaining data for management purposes.
Of course, we could also use it for SAR purposes, recommending equipment to bring in order to limit accidents and or exposure to epics. In the event of a rescue we could also have a much more clear idea of who the climber(s) was, and what equipment they have.
The impetus to have a Climbing Permit system would be further degradation of the big walls of Yosemite. If we don’t want to be required to get permits we should try our best to limit incidents of bears getting into our haul bags, failure to pack out the poop, the amount of fixed lines left indefinitely, use of power drills, and on down that line.
Right now I think that 95% or more of climbers do their best to be Leave No Trace on their wall journeys. It’s the last few percent who we need to get through to.
Thanks for reading,
Jesse McGahey
Climbing Ranger
Yosemite NP
Wilderness Branch of the Division of Protection
(209) 372-0360
jesse_mcgahey@nps.gov
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MZiebell
Social climber
Prescott, AZ
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May 29, 2008 - 06:06pm PT
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Thanks for the word, Jesse. Semms like permits for overnight climbs are still far off...
"Whoa Nelly" ???? :)
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