Permit system for El Cap????

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spleen

Big Wall climber

high, onawall

Topic Author's Original Post - May 25, 2008 - 02:30pm PT

I just want to know what other people would think of a permit system for big wall climbs in the valley. I have certainly been harassed before just because my car was parked at the base and the rangers took it upon themselves to break into my car to get my personal info. Needless to say I don't want this to happen again. I know permits have their pros and cons I just don't want those tools to break into my car again just because they are "concerned". What do you guys think???

billygoat

climber

3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle

May 25, 2008 - 02:35pm PT

Rangers breaking into your car doesn't justify a permit system. It does, however, justify suing the sh#t out of the rangers for unlawful search and seizure.

spleen

Big Wall climber

high, onawall

Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2008 - 02:49pm PT

I know it doesn't justify a permit system. The rangers in yosemite seem to get away with alot. I would rather go through a hassle of getting a permit than the hassle of suing the NPS.

MZiebell

Social climber

Prescott, AZ

May 25, 2008 - 03:22pm PT

"unlawful search and seizure. What's unlawful about it?

EDIT: Yes, kill this thread (see below)

GhoulweJ

Trad climber

Sacramento, CA

May 25, 2008 - 04:51pm PT

Kill this thread

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

May 25, 2008 - 07:08pm PT

Actually, MZiebell , you have my curiousity--is it actually legal for the police to open and search locked and unoccupied vehicles in the Valley without permission, and without probable cause? It seems to me like it would be a violation of our 4th Amendment rights; certainly it seems that it would be if the car was parked on one's own property. Is it because the car is parked on public lands?

Or is it a "sneak and peek" warrant authorized by the Patriot Act?

curious...

EDIT: not sure if in this case it was justified or not, just that MZiebells post seemed to infer that jimmying and searching cars was legal in general. Still wondering...

Michelle

Trad climber

Fort Sam

May 25, 2008 - 07:11pm PT

"Or is it a "sneak and peek" warrant authorized by the Patriot Act?

because you know people are plotting on the walls of El Cap.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

May 25, 2008 - 07:14pm PT

There may be situations where the police have probable cause to do something, without a warrant. Vehicle illegally parked. Vehicle impeding emergency vehicles, or emergency work (fires). Vehicle parked for longer than permitted in area. Improper storage of food, or at least apparently improper storage of food. And so on.

In such situations, it would probably be your word against the police as to the actual situation. Also, given probable cause to open or move your vehicle, the police then have at least some pretext for investigation for other things. "I opened the car so it could be towed, and then I found the copy of SuperTopo Yosemite Free Climbs (Exhibit A) in the glove box."

spleen

Big Wall climber

high, onawall

Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2008 - 09:13pm PT

So anyone want to actually answer the question. What would a permit system change? would it change the miscommunication between rangers and climbers. would it change or prevent the start of many searches that are not needed. I think a permit system as simple as, this is the wall I intend to climb, this is the date I will start, and this is the date when you can come looking for me or call someone who is willing to is very appropriate. To the person who wanted to kill this thread, You should go to a site thats simply for gossip rather than one that posts legitimate questions.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

May 25, 2008 - 09:53pm PT

hey there... say, i was wondering... would it be good or bad, to just be able to have a sticker (such as they give folks for free passes, etc, so they dont get harrased later.... well:

would it be good or bad, to have a sticker (to get from someone?) before you climb el cap... just so rangers know that your car is not just "dumped"....

or-is this bad, cause others will see and know that the car will be for a fact---be unchecked--and then break into it?

just curious.... (not a permit, mind you---but just a 'yeah, i'm busy.. i'll be back')... oh, welll, you get my drift...

i was just curious....
just want to learn... thanks guys...

spleen

Big Wall climber

high, onawall

Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2008 - 09:55pm PT

Its funny you say that a permit system would tell the rangers that climbers cant take care of themselves. When Yosemite is one of the few parks that doesn't have a permit system for climbers. Think all the climbers that visit Denali or Rainier cant take care of themselves??? Maybe you cant!!! I just want the communication to change between rangers and climbers. I've been and others have been harassed because the rangers have Assumed. And a note on the car is stupid, maybe you want to open your car up to any car prowler thats lurking the valley floor but not me.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

May 25, 2008 - 10:02pm PT

spleen,

If you want to change the communication between yourself and rangers, then go ahead and communicate!

Leave a note on your dashboard saying when you expect to be down from the wall, or telling them whatever you want to say.

Why did the rangers need your personal information from your car? Were you parked there for a very long time, and they thought you were overdue on a wall?

Have an unexpired registration (then they can just trace your license plate) and don't store food or anything that smells like food in your car (otherwise if the bears are showing a lot of interest in your car, they may want to see if it has food).

I have parked my car at El Cap Meadow many times over the past 20 years, and have never been hassled by rangers.

spleen

Big Wall climber

high, onawall

Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2008 - 10:08pm PT

Clint, your missing the point. Putting a note on your dash board is stupid. This informs all the criminals not the rangers( whom I support) that your car is open to steal from.

WBraun

climber

May 25, 2008 - 10:30pm PT

Permits?

Throw this guy outa here .....

spleen

Big Wall climber

high, onawall

Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2008 - 10:31pm PT

Wow The rangers can run plates, No Sh#t, They didn't bother to run my plates!. I like how everyone assumes that their must of been another reason as to why they broke into my car. UHH YEah I know about the food situation. I've been going there for ten years and My incident has been one of several. The valley "no Crime" . What valley have you been going too?? Didn't someone behead someone there a couple of years ago or at least dump the body???? Crime happens there as well as everywhere. Thats part of the reason the rangers are the way they are. The base of El Cap is a trail head just like any other trail head. And As far as me being a fearful person...... And everyone getting so mad!!! It was just a question, I never made any personal judgments.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber

Arid-zona

May 25, 2008 - 10:32pm PT

Um.....

Every assumes because generally rangers don't just break into cars because they are bored.

Climbers, however, have a pretty good track record of screaming "f*#k da police."

So yeah, maybe if you told a more complete story we'd understand a little more.