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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 30, 2008 - 07:49pm PT
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Dude, if you don't want to deal with glorified guns then stay the f*#k out of this topic. When a guy is hunting for a sweet deal on an AK or AR or anything allong those lines its just not going to be a happy place for you so practice some of that conflict avoidance and stay the f*#k away ;)
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 30, 2008 - 08:05pm PT
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"And I don't have a problem with owning a high-powered assault rifle if you you really have hordes of barbarians at your door or expect to in the near future."
well, there is also that, yes ;-) it should be no surprise that part of it for me is that i expect things to start falling apart at some point in my lifetime, and I want to survive through it long enough to help rebuild it better the next time...
don't get me wrong, bro - I Agree With You on your point. I just don't think I'm glorifying them, when I feel I treat them with the respect and the certain degree of horror they deserve.
Yes - they are designed to kill...or prevent killing and dying, depending on circumstances...
modern media (tv, games, music) glorifies guns dude - a survivalist like me that just wants to walk into the woods and be left alone to live out the rest of my time here doesn't, imho...
in any case - i agree to disagree with you on this. let's go hang a rope...
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Robb
Social climber
Pick Up Truck Heaven
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Mar 31, 2008 - 12:57am PT
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Khanom
Sorry that was too vague, wasn't on purpose.Simply trying to keep it as simple as it is.If I could type like I talk I'd give you a dissertation based on real experiences in my life, not armchair after-the-fact academic musings, but alas you're spared. Did I seem to at any point glorify our gun-obsessive culture of violence? I think not-that's MTV's gig w/ their venue. I on the other hand I was a direct recipient of the violence of this culture as manifested every day that only those who were there and lived through it can speak of. I put people down on the ground w/ 9mm, 12ga., & .223 persuasion on numerous occasions which I might add diffused rather that escalated violent situations.
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Robb
Social climber
Pick Up Truck Heaven
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Mar 31, 2008 - 01:12am PT
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Furthermore, if I might offer an analogy on the premise that less force/firepower is effective.
Do you use an 11mm, 10.5, or even double 8's/9's (that's known as "back-up") to lead?
Why not use a single 7mm rope? It will probably work in most situations.
Every rock rat I've ever known would say that's insane because you have to plan for the worst-just in case it happens.
Same deal here. I TRUELY hope I never have to confront another human being in a potentially life threatening situation, but I know from experience that might very well happen again, so I intend to be the victor, not the victim. 7 P's of the British army lad.
Not ment to provoke-just trying to understand one another.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
a spaceship built for two
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Mar 31, 2008 - 01:20am PT
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"Khanom, you want an anecdote?
Will it shut you up??
A friend in another state has a small horse ranch, 1800 acres or so, out in the boonies, no cell, no phone, only a radio.
4:00 AM he hears noises in his outbuilding.
Turns out two itinerant tweakers are not only scavenging for salable items, but are specifically looking for the iodine he uses to patch up his animals that have gotten fence cut.
Apparently it is used to make meth.
He grabs his Mac 90 thumbhole sporter (BTW thats an AK clone) and manages to corral one of the two while the other bolts into the bush.
At gunpoint the perp lies on the floor and, with a little unspecified encouragement, permits his hands to be tied. He is less enthused to then be hogtied but once again is encouraged to co-operate.
Then his head was chained and locked to a post while laying in manure.
This is the funny part. The one he captured had the keys to the junker they hid in a wash a mile or so away, so the one in the bush was just playing indian and hiding and watching.
An hour or so passes and as the light increases Mr. Indian is not so well hidden.
So my friend slowly walks toward him with the rifle and, now aware that he has been made, Mr Indian starts to bolt again.
Four or five rounds over his head into the hill in front of him causes a total demeanor change.
By the time he had the indian trussed up (and also laying in manure) he decided not to attempt to radio.
Normally he babies his pickup down the ranch road but that time he hit the bumps extra hard and laughed as he watched in the mirror as the hogtied tweakers slammed face first into the bed.
By the time he got to the Sheriff's these guys looked like something the cat dragged in.
On the way he saw their car, tried the keys, and when the Sheriff got back out there he found some interesting stuff in it.
Personally, the Mac 90 would not have been my first choice, but Clint is right, it has a throaty distinctive sound.
And THAT morning it was just the ticket. "
this is a horrible anecdote. so two people who were not trying to kill him or come after him with guns deserve to be murdered? with an assault rifle? ridiculous. not only that, chaining a human being in manure, hog tieing, laughing at people as you hurt them while driving even tho they are totally under control? the guy sounds totally sadistic. that is over the top. CREEPY. it's more scary to me that nuts like that live out in the boonies.
what's even scarier is that a bunch of you guys seem to condone that.
there's a line between defending your property and taking the opportunity to be sadistic. creepy.
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Robb
Social climber
Pick Up Truck Heaven
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Mar 31, 2008 - 01:57am PT
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Hey SS, you sure about these people's intents and/or actions?
Not meaning to sound or be condescending, but have you ever had these perps at your place? Might give you a new insite into the difference between belief & reality.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
a spaceship built for two
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Mar 31, 2008 - 02:05am PT
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yes, when i was youngn in the ghetto our house was broken into 2x, once while people were home. my beautiful purple bike got stoled :(
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
a spaceship built for two
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Mar 31, 2008 - 02:07am PT
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"Hey SS, you sure about these people's intents and/or actions?"
are you? you really can't argue that once he already had them under control he wasn't out of line. bottom line... that guy is creepy.
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Robb
Social climber
Pick Up Truck Heaven
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Mar 31, 2008 - 02:39am PT
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Sorry about your bike. I was REALLY upset when my Univega was stolen & the local S.O. took time enough to make sure they didn't get into an unnecessary situation over a bike-hey why cause a riot.
Sure about their intentions? Sure enough to know that I went face to face w/ many of them, and the only thing I did know is that they would go the distance w/out the drop of a hat (google it, it's old school for they'll go total psychotic ).
"you really can't argue"...
Can't I? That's what I tried to put forth kid, it ain't academic disertation , it's reality based on experience. You will learn this from us ( old school, been there,done that ahead of you,ouch!, ), or you will learn this the hard way w/ painful consequences for your education. Wise up & spare yourself!
Good night. Be safe.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2008 - 03:08am PT
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don't sweat it eric - not a dump in my mind ;-)
so after opening up this whole can o worms, the new rifle is going back un-shot - there is something under the front site and they just crammed it on there - slag on the barrel or something...
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
a spaceship built for two
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Mar 31, 2008 - 03:22am PT
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i am more convinced by stories like: a little old lady was walking to the atm to deposit her social security check when two thugs accosted her. were it not for the ak 47 hidden in her pocketbook, the little old lady and her check would have been history.
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Doug Buchanan
Trad climber
Fairbanks Alaska
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Mar 31, 2008 - 03:40am PT
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Shoot a single shot rifle more often, to maximize the utility of your AK 47.
State the first rule of climbing before each climb: Do not fall.
And practice that which is most feared by every government dolt: Asking effective questions, on record.
DougBuchanan.com
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 31, 2008 - 05:35am PT
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SS,
you are too much.
"Murdered"?
They were criminals. How do you know what they are carrying?
Once he got them tied up the gun was no longer necessary.
I'm sure you would have just convinced them of the error of their ways and given them a foot massage before they went and voluntarily turned themselves in.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2008 - 11:01am PT
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"And practice that which is most feared by every government dolt: Asking effective questions, on record."
Niiiice ;-) I like that one...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 31, 2008 - 12:44pm PT
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I suspect that liking it is easier than DOING it.
So Peltum,
did you go to Doug's?
Seems like THEY'D be well stocked in Rugers and could resupply.
Did you study the field stripping/ reassembly instructions?
The hardest part for me, blindfolded or not, always seems to be the articulation while re-inserting the bolt.
They've always danced a fine line with the mini.
While actually a scaled down assault rifle, the wood stock has allowed it to masquerade as a sporting arm (as during the Crime Bill ban when rifles of the same caliber and function were targeted), but now with a black composite stock and those dog eared front sights its beginning to show its heritage again.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 31, 2008 - 01:52pm PT
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Next thing you know they'll be made in China.
(That said, Don McClure, expert gunsmith, once took apart a $245 Norinco 1911 in my presence and pronounced it a surprisingly high quality weapon.)
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2008 - 10:58pm PT
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for all you keeping score at home ;-)
since i walked out the store with the rifle, they can't exchange it or they have to sell mine as used...
manager at dougs swears its just cosmetic, told me to go shoot it and see what i thought, if i have issues we ship her back to the factory (30 bucks, 4 weeks...)
fortunately, i have had chest pains all weekend and had the day off from work to get a few tests done, so i got to go shoot a little this afternoon...(so far its looking like something other than my heart, which is nice...stomach from all the meds maybe, or something with my ribcage)
tough to tell without sandbagging it down, but it seemed to be firing ok - have to sandbag or sled it down and ring it out though to be sure....did have issues cycling for the first 100 rounds though, which was annoying - i suspect the factory oil job to be the problem...
ok ron - i'm going to practice my field stripping now ;-)
(and order a boatload of ammo before it gets even more expensive - i'm going to need to learn to load my own for sure)
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Mar 31, 2008 - 11:07pm PT
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Tom, you probably should have cleaned it and re-lubed it before you ever shot it.;)
However, all guns have a slight breakin period before they run %100.
The action has a breakin and so does the barrel.
Clean the barrel very often at first for maximum accuracy.
Bore snakes work great.
Edit:
It looks like the slag deformed the sight in that picture.
Hopefully it didn't affect the barrel.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 31, 2008 - 11:15pm PT
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Well I guess there's a lesson there, but I don't know if it is caveat emptor or just not to buy from Doug.
I'm sure that Dick at Dixie Gun & Fish would have exchanged outright if he had a replacement.
I've bought guns from Doug (including my Gold Combat Stainless which converted me to a 1911 fan), but have always been more guarded than when dealing with Dick.
Then again there is the original problem, a surprise as I said, but combined with jams (or was it just failure to reach full battery?) does not bode well.
Some guns require no break in, some a little, and then there is my Thunder Ranch which after 9000 rounds is still a bit tight with it requiring a slide tap a few times per the last thousand.
But that only tells me that it'll still kick ass when my grandson carries it.
Still, all my Minis have rocked straight from the box.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
a spaceship built for two
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"Once he got them tied up the gun was no longer necessary."
but chaining them in manure and trying to injure them while driving them to the sherrif's was neccessary? dumb. and creepy.
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