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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 29, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
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ok ron, shack, mark, and all the rest of you gun aficionados...
i'm looking at ak47s. i'm seeing a million variants and a bunch of choices on pricepoint, receivers, manufacturers...
what can you tell me about your experiences - what's good, what's not so good, etc...is a cheap one with a 1 mil receiver worth the money, or do i want the 800 dollar polish deluxe underfolder ?
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Mar 29, 2008 - 12:38pm PT
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Neither.
Just kidding. Why DO you want one? What are your reasons? I'll bet 10 times out of 10, if you come up with a list of design elements you appreciate, specifically, for an ak-type, you can find an alternate rifle that contains all the elements (cheap ammo availability, durability, whatever) in a much higher-quality package.
Just my .02, as I've never liked the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge, specifically, the 39mm part of it...
Or, for that matter, chi-comm, stamped pot-metal recievers...
But they DO handle adverse environments well, such as sand.
Good hunting!
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scooter
climber
Moss Landing CA
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Mar 29, 2008 - 12:45pm PT
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I know I never chime in on the gun nut threads, but here is my 2 cents. Check out the CZ VZ-58. The recivers are milled. I have fired both and it is WAY better than any AK I have ever seen or fired. Plus the price is hard to beat. I shoot a CZ 550 medium magnum in 7mm Rem Mag. The quality and accuracy are unbeatable it shot MOA at 100yds out of the box. So far those are the only two CZs I have seen and both examples were really good.
What would you hunt with that? If you are looking for something small and light I think a bolt action carbine in .308 would be a little better and more humane. Not that a well placed shot with a .22 wouldn't stop a buffalo. Just a little more room for error.
http://www.CZ-USA.com
Patrick
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2008 - 12:47pm PT
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also looking at the m1...
i'm looking for something durable, reliable, handles adverse conditions, not too terribly expensive to shoot, easy to maintain, that has a reasonably higher capacity than the 5 shot 30-06 i have on lawaway...if i could get a high cap mag for the 30-06 i might stick with that, but they don't make one...
the biggie for me on the ak is the reliability...but i'm guessing you don't get the same with a $500 ak as you get with an $800+, which suddenly puts the AR 15 into the picture too at least as far as price...
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2008 - 12:51pm PT
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whoa - hadn't even heard of those CZs - interesting for sure...
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Mar 29, 2008 - 01:09pm PT
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Holy sh#t- a .338! I want one!
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5293&cat=0
Ron, if you're reading this, do you know anything about the 6.5 Creedmore? I'm assuming some kind of wildcat cartridge?
This looks like a screaming deal for a possibly hard to make cartridge. $1159
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5294&cat=0
edit:
"Hey guys, Hornady just released a brand NEW 6.5mm Cartridge called the 6.5 Creedmoor. In "secret" development with Dennis DeMille at Creedmoor Sports, the 6.5 Creedmoor is bigger than an 6.5x47 Lapua, but smaller than a .260 Remington (6.5-08). Case Capacity is 53.0 grains of water filled to the top of the case mouth.
Hornady will start selling factory-loaded ammo in January or February, and expect Hornady-made brass to follow a few months after that. The factory ammo features a NEW 120gr Amax bullet with a claimed .470 BC, plus the present 140gr Amax.
One of the design goals with the new cartridge was total reliability in rapid fire for High Power shooters. The factory loads are held to a "sensible" pressure of just under 60,000 psi. For comparison, the 6.5x47 and 6XC are rated at 63,000+ psi.
Dennis has been testing the round for a year and he reports "no pressure issues such as stiff bolt lift or primer cratering."
This is a direct competitor to Lapua's 6.5x47 and it will be interesting to see which round earns greater acceptance. In addition to High Power applications, we think the new 6.5 Creedmoor will work very well as a tactical and hunting round."
BULLETIN REPORT: http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/hornady-introduces-new-65-creedmoor-cartridge/
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2008 - 01:10pm PT
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wildone - so many choices ! off to the stores to see what's around i can pick up and handle...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 29, 2008 - 01:13pm PT
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The day for an AK has come and gone.
They aren't dirt cheap any more.
The ammo isn't either.
The 7.62 X 39mm round has poor range.
There are other rifles with the beneficial design similarities, but chambered in better rounds like the Gallil .308 or .223, or the Sigg 556 (only a few hundred more than your $800 AK.)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 29, 2008 - 01:21pm PT
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Wildone,
I stay away from dark horse rounds. There is more to practicality than performance.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2008 - 02:41pm PT
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interesting - the guy at dougs is telling me he thinks the 223 is an underpowered cartridge - which is too bad as they have that same mini 14 for 670 too...
they also have a used stainless ar 10 for 1k...308 ain't bad...
ah - so many choices...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 29, 2008 - 03:19pm PT
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Well, the Mini-14 is one of the finest small rifles around, lots of chuck for the buck.
Plus there are factory hicap mags around at reasonable prices.
Yes, the 5.56 is a light round BUT it tears hell and tumbles, it penetrates substantially at moderate range, it is accurate to a quarter mile, and a person can carry LOTS of them.
If you go for it let me know when you are ready to compete in a field strip- reassembly race,... blindfolded!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 29, 2008 - 03:27pm PT
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Take a look at some of the H&K clones. Well built, good design, reliable and very accurate out of the box.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Mar 29, 2008 - 03:33pm PT
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Daewoo's Kick ass!
They are the best of the AR-15 and the AK-47 combined together.
It is a gas piston upper like an AK and a lower like an AR, made from similar materials as an AR...it even uses AR mags!
They are light weight, accurate and highly reliable.
Everyone I know that has one, loves it.
NIB for $950?
I think that's a pretty good deal.
EDIT:
Forget about the AR-10. Sure they look cool and the idea of an AR in .308 is nice, but they don't work that great.
Many have to be returned to the factory cuz they jam.
My friend has sent his back 3 times.
An M1A or a FAL is a much better choice for .308.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 29, 2008 - 05:28pm PT
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I agree with Shack. The M1A or FAL are better, but probably doesn't meet the cost limits.
Anybody priced .308 rounds lately.
I used to stitch up the berm with my HK91 w/PSG1 trigger and bulk ammo, but .308 ain't for rapid fire any more (unless you're the retiring CEO of Bear Stearns, and then you're gonna need something belt fed!)
The 6.5 is coming on strong Tom, but since cost is a consideration, if you want a box fed rifle look for a used Mini, or AR or one of the newer AK-AR hybrids mentioned (if you can find one) that you can try before you buy.
Then, even though its going to sting, buy a pile of mags and ammo because what seem like exorbitant prices now will look cheap in a few years.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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Mar 29, 2008 - 05:59pm PT
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I love my Mini-14, since I live in CA I can not get an AR. I chose it over the Mini-30 because the ammo is cheaper and more readily avaliable, especially if there is some sort of mega disaster and I need to scrounge for ammo.
With that said I shoot my ruger 10/22 way more than any other gun I own. Can't beat the price of 22 ammo, but with the 22 there is no stopping power.
http://www.gunsamerica.com is a decent website to check out the guns that are "out there".
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 29, 2008 - 06:29pm PT
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Just 2 days ago I was shooting with No_0ne and we went crazy with my AMT (a heavy barrel 10/22 clone with 10X Leupold).
We just call it the "bunny killer".
Anything within 200m is hittable.
And sticking it in the Lead Sled we can rapid fire with awesome accuracy.
Some guy had one of those accurized Mini 14s ($895) but was only printing 1.75" groups at 100m, but he was using a bipod.
It was still hitting the quarter mile gong.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2008 - 06:30pm PT
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went with the mini 14 stainless NIB...for what I'm looking for i think it was the right choice
oh but the toys they have there at dougs - the barret 50 was marked down 1k too...temptation...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 29, 2008 - 06:35pm PT
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Well Mazel Tov.
You won't have ANY problems with it (unless you try to beat me at blindfold field service LOL).
Now, jump on some clips and ammo.
(And don't shoot at Doug's indoor range unless you have a gas mask).
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Ouch!
climber
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Mar 29, 2008 - 06:48pm PT
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Back when I was meat hunting, I killed more deer with a .22 than anything else. Just punch him through the ribs and sit back for 15 minutes. Then go find him leaning against a bush, all bled out so the meat doesn't all taste like liver.
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