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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 19, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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Name the character.
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 19, 2008 - 06:55pm PT
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How about naming yourself? Or at least give a reason why you insist on posting anonymously.
Edit: And thanks for continuing to remind me how much you and your little pal belong on that other forum.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 19, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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Somebody drilled into somebodies wisdom tooth and hit a nerve.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 19, 2008 - 10:09pm PT
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Word on the street is that Bill Widule (or maybe Pete Cleveland?)used chalk first, maybe not, don't hit me with a lightning bolt.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jan 19, 2008 - 10:44pm PT
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Well I haven't been talkin sh#t on the wings of steel threads, there must be 15 or 16 of em now: but Leroy up there asked this: "Steve , could you spell out for us your ethical stance? Your legal council Mimi can help. Chalk, bolts,TRs, modifying the rock,Lay it all out."
I noticed that instead of answering the question Steve, you started talkin slag about the WOS boyz again. Now frankly Steve, it's America, you can (and did) do this kind of thing, ie, just avoid the question: but I think if you'd started slaggin on Ammon like you did on the other thread you started it would have come closer to answering the question. I didn't think Cilly was attacking you as much as asking "could you spell out for us your ethical stance"...maybe I was wrong.
"Old school", like he says, doesn't say much....of course, maybe we could look at Warren Hardings writings to define what "Old School" is for us, as he had the first El Cap ascent, or maybe have Dean Caldwell define that for us as a starting point, since he's still alive and well.
My main point is this: there are already many WOS threads if you feel like being a dog barkin at the mailman. If you don't want to answer the question I don't give a rats ass, next, that would be the way to approach it I would think. Just don't answer it.
Oh wait. That is exactly what you did. I guess you could have just posted on one of the many other wos thread though. Hmmmmmmmm Carry on!
Deep regards to all, including Steve, the Wos boyz, and other assorted folks, posters, climbers and name callers.
Bill
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Jan 19, 2008 - 11:37pm PT
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Maybe a little of this is in order...
Before we dig deeper...
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 19, 2008 - 11:39pm PT
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These threads have been like pulling teeth alright.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jan 20, 2008 - 01:27am PT
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Yet your constantly found with a pair of pliers in hand :D
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jan 20, 2008 - 12:21pm PT
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One central element of Grossman's ethics that so many of his detractors cannot seem to muster: COURAGE!
Plainly evident in the climbs he's done, also in his plain manner of speaking his mind. Says what he thinks and is not afraid to have his name attached
"Toproping is for pussies", same for anonymous posting!
Viva Syndicata Granitica!
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Leroy
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2008 - 06:36am PT
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Who is Nick D?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 21, 2008 - 10:43am PT
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What is Leroy? If not unsatisfied?!?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 21, 2008 - 11:18am PT
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grossboy posted earlier,"Richard and Mark had not done a modern aid route BEFORE heading up WOS. Establishing your credibility after the fact is one of the core problems with their approach."
tends to piss off the valley boys when nobody ca climb the route. here is is over 25 years later and the valley boys are still whining about it....
and of course dmt would have you believe he has the answers."Rightly or wrongly WoS is irrelevant and so are the arguments surrounding it.
No one but a handful of oldsters gives a tinkers damn about the whole lot of you.
True.
And that is not a personal indictment from me to anyone of you. I'm simply telling you the truth - IT DOES NOT MATTER.
DMT "
fact is, 99.9999% of climbs dont matter except to those who climb them. anything you have climbed dont mean jack sh#t to me. they just dont matter DMT.
except on one level. that is adventure. i can appreciate a good adventure from a fellow soul.
what could be more of a grand adventure than doind a new route on el cap? and finding that there are way more objective hazards to climbing when the locals get their panties in a bunch? sounds adventurous to me...
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jan 21, 2008 - 11:34am PT
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I think it's great that we have people like Steve defending the old school ethics.
What's a bummer is when the defenders go beyond ethics and start imposing their view of style upon others. It kills their credibility.
It's like Jim Beyer taping over the loops on his heads so people can't cheat clip them. Stop worrying so much about how other people climb. It shows it's not about protecting the stone, but your ego.
If someone's is chipping that's an ethical issue. They are ruining a natural line that someone else could possibly do. But speed and amount of gear are a question of style.
Now you could say lack of preparation led to a route being done poorly from an ethical standpoint. But without climbing the route how can you make a judgement? Heresay? Conjecture? Once you do that you lose credibility. If you got on the route it might be like Royal on WOEML, sure the route might have problems, but you might find some impressive climbing that opens your eyes to the value of the route.
Maybe if both sides of the WoS controversy could admit how they could have done things differently we'd get some where. e.g. Mark and Richard could admit if they did a hard El Cap route before WoS they would have established the reputation that they could put up WoS in the best way possible. And if Steve et al could admit that they passed judgement (claimed the climb was overbolted) on the climb and climbers without having enough information.
But I'm not holding my breath, just enjoying some popcorn.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jan 21, 2008 - 01:49pm PT
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good post fet.
grossboy and mimi are suffering from the same affliction. they need to use that deuce4bag and take some midol.
fact is, no one has completed the 2nd of WoS.
instead of ponying up which is the noble thing to do, those has beens would rather hash it out on the internet.
f&&&in sad i say. action is a million times louder than their misplaced words.
i support the WoS crew simply because of the hate hurled at them and the fact that nobody has actually proven that their ascent was bogus drill up work.
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