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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
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It is tragic that Walt and Robbie aren't here. I do remember Walt didn't exactly wax poetic about this route and how it was done.
There's no real argument that the climbing is difficult and scary especially if you're falling onto the Zmac rivets that these guys continue to insist are standard equipment on their route by design. Talk about a flat learning curve.
It's not that the pitches haven't been repeated, it's that people seem to lose interest and move onto something more interesting. It's only 13 pitches. And with the nine or eleven cords they carried, their FA was over and they could still almost have rapped all the way to the ground without losing any ground!
Adding to the fact that the route has mostly been climbed with no fanfare. I heard recently that Kevin Thaw and friends got up the first 5 pitches in a push before running into disintegrating copperheads tapped into drilled holes with no alternative placements. Anybody else hear about this ascent?
The reason religion comes up is that it is the central focus of his book.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Jan 15, 2008 - 09:55pm PT
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A bit out of my depth (heighth) here, but......
50 Rurps? damn.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:03pm PT
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WOS Scat_Break: how about that "Pin_Bolt"??? Will I live long enough to ever clip one?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2008 - 10:14pm PT
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The offending section from Big Wall Climbing reads as follows:
Not to lean on my editor now gone, but the "from the Valley forever," part was his addition and grammatically funky. Deucie has the numbers well in hand with respect to the bolt spacing and I stand behind what I have written here.
The claim of less than twenty total enhancements of the 151 on the FA is dubious and the philosopher king has regretted even having to arrive at a figure. Smells like a rat and rat turds I saw when I inspected their work up high, several of them.
These two guys have been itching for a fight ever since they popped back up and have made the recent mistake of judging and slagging Bill Russell. Like I recently posted, if you were half a man between the two of you, you would have sorted out your affairs.
Sorry gents, no apology.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:17pm PT
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"Graniteclimber, dont forget that its easy to disrespect someone who you have a disagreement with. That person might be a good and stellar man, yet still be in disagreement with you."
"Dont demonize him, it just doesnt fit his character. He puts his heart on the line."
Rokjox, did it occur to you that you could take much of your post and address it to Steve Grossman? Maybe he is good and stellar with his buddies, but he certainly has gone out of his way to disrespect and demonize Richard and Mark.
Just as it is easy to disrespect someone you have an agreement with, it is easy to overlook the faults of your friends. He started this thread, continuing his demonization of Richard and Mark. You are blind to that but want to step in when your buddy Steve starts getting a taste of his own medicine.
I ask you as Steve's friend, after having read Steve's posts on WOS how can anyone find him to be rational or fair on this subject? How can anyone find him to be trustworthy?
Anyway, my low opinion of Steve Grossman was not formed by the WOS threads but by how he started a thread smearing Ammon. He only confirmed it by his WOS posts.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:32pm PT
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"Sorry gents, no apology."
Like I said, if Steve Grossman is so willing to perpetuate falsehoods on WOS, why should we believe anything he says? He has no credibility.
It's funny how Steve started the thread implying that Richard might try to hold his editor responsible for the appendix in his book, and then when Steve's chapter gets called into question, the first thing he does is blame his editor. Does Steve make a practice of allowing his editor to make inaccurate and "grammatically funky" additions?
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:40pm PT
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Mimi - I spoke with Kevin T. about this, AlDude spoke with him further about it. Al can't post due to the state of his computer vs. this site, and its not my place to go quoting Kevin. Its pretty widely known that his team was up there though.
-Kate.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 15, 2008 - 10:53pm PT
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Again, the relevant facts are there in the stone - so far not a single shread of evidence of "overdrilling" or excessive "enhancements" has issued forth from it yet - quite the contrary to-date. People can say and print what they like - and did - but so far that's all very different from what has been reported by folks who've been on the route.
My question is what were those guys getting paid at whatever gig they were working? That's quite a load to drop all at once given they clearly didn't acquire it all slowly over several years.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2008 - 10:53pm PT
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graniteclimber, would you mind identifying yourself?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:02pm PT
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This last part would have been less soap opera-like if 'the wings', hadn't provided those weird but interesting facts.
It's good that this had it's 15 minutes (mostly 2(?) years ago), is there really some reason not to let this go?
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:08pm PT
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Jaybro, despite their claims to the contrary, as long as they continue to fail to be honest and forthcoming about their ascent, detractors will call them on it. This variation doesn't warrant the attention it receives, but worse, there is so much material to continue the discussion, the thread is still young.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:08pm PT
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Or - get on or rap it to see the reality of it and report back something useful instead of just repeating what you think went on? Steel on stone is what's real and it's still there.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:28pm PT
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so granite guy-
just who the hell are you anyway?
did i miss the part where you posted anyting under your real name?
that tends to imply a certain credibility to many.
further, what if any, is your connection to all of this?
you certainly seem opinionated.
are you some sort of expert on WoS after all you have read on stupitopo?
how impressive.
as for "ostracizing the climbers from the Valley forever", it's more of an editorial comment than a statement (or misstatement) of fact, wouldn't you agree?
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:54pm PT
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"... or rap it to see the reality of it .."
Get ready to rap healyje .... bring magnifying glass & microscope
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 15, 2008 - 11:59pm PT
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Nah, Healy will be too busy making his 8,742nd ascent of the SW Corner of Beacon Rock. Or 1,236th of Dodd's or Young Warriors.
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:01am PT
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Nice lashing job, Werner. Just what Richard and Mark could use about now.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:03am PT
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That thread about the Hubble and its amazing acuity is starting to give me ideas.... :-)
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 16, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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Yoazz - by amazing coincidence, I just did my 8,742nd solo lap on the SE Corner the day before yesterday and my 1,236th solo lap of YW will be coming up on Friday. But, here is a view from above the first roof of my latest project out there and I sure could use some help on it when we re-open. So come up and help - I'm sure it's completely small potatos by all your Valley standards.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 16, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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Werner - would you be my brakeman?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 16, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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After having done almost all the lines that were visually appealing to me there, I've got no interest in yet another blocky chossy squeeze job at Beacon. If they open those big roofs on the E. Face? to climbing, that would rekindle some interest. Otherwise, yawn. That section in your pic does look reasonably solid.
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