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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 24, 2007 - 02:51pm PT
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SS,
You're on...but how do we settle this? Do you know how many people have been hit by lightning in the bay area in the past? Ya know, we might get 1 thunderstorm every couple of years out here.
And I was talkin' about those of us who live in bay area mt lion country and behave like prey (run trails) regularly.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
livin' that honky tonk dream
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Aug 24, 2007 - 03:53pm PT
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dunno, you figure it out and i'll go along w/whatever u conclude. don't forget a lot of the places people get attacked by mtn lions are the same kinds of places people get struck by lightning. cheers buddy!
ps if i win, can i have cosmo instead, i don't like beer
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10b4me
climber
Site C4 in TMCG
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Aug 24, 2007 - 08:37pm PT
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big cats still don't scare me as much as weird people though...
you got that right
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mingus
Trad climber
Grand Junction, Colorado
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Aug 25, 2007 - 10:33am PT
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I am a trail runner that has run solo in the Cascades, the Sierras, the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem, and the Colorado highcountry. Mountain lion's are my greatest concern. I have a small friend who is a tough woman, that also runs alone. She was attacked in Rocky Mountain National Park and fought off a lion with aggressive kicking and screaming. So now I run with a trekking pole that I collapse to roughly a foot and a half as a frontline defense on remote trails. I watch the vegetation around me and I also pay special attention to the uphill slope because I know there is much more vulnerability if a lion is going to come down on my neck.
I agree with Mr. Snyder that a gun or even bear spray is not going to work in such close proximity. It is going to be mano e mano at that point and the 'point' of a trekking pole is going to get their attention....or at least my screaming and whacking with that trekking pole that I bought in Chamonix years ago, and carry religiously, might help. After all, they are cats not terriers, and if you can get a moment of their attention, you might just have the upper hand. Whaddya think?
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2007 - 12:02pm PT
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I think I'm going to get a trekking pole and maybe wear a punk-style studded collar around my neck!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 25, 2007 - 12:08pm PT
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I have also read that sewing on fake eyes onto the back of your hat may deter a lion from attacking from the back.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 25, 2007 - 12:41pm PT
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RE:
"After all, they are cats not terriers, and if you can get a moment of their attention, you might just have the upper hand. Whaddya think?"
I think that makes good sense.
The longer I spend in the high country the more the odds go up I will eventually see one and frankly, at the risk of sounding chicken, I'm not really that psyched about it. Two days from the trailhead (?) even Daniel Boone might feel exposed!
Agree with eye on uphill slope and with doing one's best to stay in the moment, be aware, trekking poles always.
That the cats are becoming more populous and more used to humans in their habitat seems to put a curve on the potential for close calls, or worse.
Now, if the mountain lions of Colorado would use good sense and just kill off the whiny dogs of campers, that would be ok with me.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 28, 2007 - 03:56pm PT
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neat stats Omot - too bad we can't factor in the disappearances, I wonder how that would effect things...
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Aug 28, 2007 - 04:10pm PT
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I've been trail running since 1988 in Lion Country and have never seen a lion. I've come across many bob cats, wild pigs, coyote's , but never the alusive Mt. Lion. I've seen fresh tracks, kills, etc, but never the real deal. My buddy, mountain biking 40 ft ahead of me, had one jump across the trail in front of him at Demo forest. He said he didn't think anything that big existed outside of a zoo.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 28, 2007 - 07:29pm PT
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Raydog,
Good point on the missing persons. I guess the mt lion numbers are a lower bound. It should be fairly easy to get missing persons stats for that time range. Don't remember any in this area in the past 10 years, but there might be some.
Tomo
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Aug 28, 2007 - 08:05pm PT
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Tomo,
one of the posts earlier in this thread (pagan?) mentioned the hikers who disappeared never found, and theorized big cat probability - seems logical.
I think statistics includes "what ifs", in other words what if the numbers of those missing in the back-country were attributed to (possible) mountain lion kills, how would the stats look - wondering what mountain lion range is - know wolves can travel a long ways - wonder if national figures more accurate than by state?
interesting...
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Aug 28, 2007 - 08:41pm PT
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I just rub my partner's backpack with catnip before we go out... and I make sure I'm always a little bit faster...
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
heart and soul in the boondocks
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Aug 29, 2007 - 03:52am PT
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EXCELLENT work tomo. that KICKS a$$. no worries on the cosmo.
so as for your intuition, i dunno, i'm not you, and i don't want to comment on whether or not you should follow it, altho it it helps, i'll tell you that i generally follow my own intuition even if it doesn't make sense... i've never regretted that, not once, tho i have regretted ignoring my intution, even if i thought at the time that it made sense to do so.
i feel like becuz pretty much all of cali is so full of great housing ops for mtn. lions, and there are so many people recreating and, unfortunately, building their own housing in those areas, yet there still arn't many attacks, that you're still gonna get hit by lightening before ya get pounced on by a big kitty. lots of people run/walk daily in mtn. lion territory and there still are so few attacks.
BUT still, i just went outside to bring my cat in. she's getting old! she'd make a perfect appetizer for a mtn. lion.
moon's lookin' pretty out there. anyone who's still up, go take a look.
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G_Gnome
Sport climber
Everywhere, man...
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Aug 29, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
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IF you get attacked, and you are alone, you don't have much chance. You are most likely to have your spine bitten thru very quickly or you are going to be suffocated and your throat ripped out very quickly.
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Omot
Trad climber
The here and now
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Aug 29, 2007 - 03:10pm PT
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SS,
I have the same experience with intution. I try to follow it and the times I haven't, I've regretted it. See my post on the "almost getting the chop" thread. That unfortunate experience occurred after telling my partner I wasn't feeling very good and thinking about turning around!
I have on occasion been running or hiking and had that feeling of something behind me. Of course I look, but I've never seen anything. Usually I'm enjoying the trail, the scenery, my beating heart, and feeling good to be alive.
I always thought it would be a privilege to be eaten by a mt lion. Now I'm a Dad and really don't want to die before raising my child. I guess my intuition is that it really is unlikely I'll be attacked while on the trails!
Tomo
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adam d
climber
CA
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:54pm PT
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Resurrecting this thread...I saw my 4th mtn lion last week in Tuolumne (4th ever, not 4th in Tuolumne). We were 2 pitches up Oz, at the base of the amazing corner when my partner sees something moving in the woods. Then the cat slowly wanders out into the boulders 200' out from the base of the route and sits down and watches us for about 5 minutes.
As he wandered away, we joked that he was just sizing up how long it would take us to get to the top so he'd know when to lay his ambush.
here's all the p&s camera could handle but there's documentation...
and less zoomed in...
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adam d
climber
CA
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Sep 24, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
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I've seen a few cougars in Santa Barbara county too, all while running or walking solo in the woods, and for the most part I don't worry about them though I do sometimes carry a knife when running.
We'll see if the recent fire down here displaces some cats out of the huge burned areas.
adam
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Sep 24, 2007 - 06:06pm PT
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A big ol’ gnarly pussycat at the base of OZ???
That is just too cool, um, I think…
Things have been getting out of hand here in the Boulder area.
A few weeks ago, not far from Nederland, a cat took down a pony, then the pony's owner saw the cat sitting in the grass for the next few days, eyeballing the guy on his front porch.
Then down in town, obstinate cats have been sighted in backyards, on streets. Bears are getting pretty aggressive too.
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Ouch!
climber
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Sep 24, 2007 - 06:15pm PT
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SuperTopo on the Web
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lightning storms (we know that's not true, they just didn't cause any injury or damage)
Let us know!