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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 22, 2007 - 02:22pm PT
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A friend and I were hiking up Colby Canyon to Strawberry Peak (Angeles Forest) last Saturday morning. We were probably 3/4 of the way up (hadn't hit the trail split in Josephine saddle yet) and on a part of the trail next to a small ravine to our left - trail hairpinned up ahead (to the left) so we could see it on the other side of this ravine (maybe 30' across to our left).
It was very still, no wind. Suddenly the bushes below the trail on the other side began moving, rustling but we couldn't see what it was. We had already seen a snake and numerous squirrels, but the amount of bushes moving around led us to believe it was something larger than a squirrel!
We thought maybe a deer or two but when I saw a small sapling moving (like from something at its base) I thought maybe a bear...whatever it was didn't seem to be moving quickly. My friend assumed the worst - mountain lion - so we decided to back down the way we came, started talking really loud, and then retreated altogether rather than facing something on a trail with no way out.
Today we heard about a mountain lion getting (attacking?) a dog over in La Crescenta sometime recently. I'm wondering if at this point, seeing as how it's so dry, they're going to be more active during the day, and I've always believed them to be incredibly quiet (not crashing through bushes like a bear or deer might)??
I was stoked for us to be alone on a hike - some peace and quiet, etc. (since some of the hikes in the Angeles are just as bad as being on the freeways in L.A.) but am now rethinking doing this again in these drought conditions.
Talking about bears, right before Willie closed two years ago, a bear came cruising down the hike-in trail (we were at Waterfall Wall watching it) and over towards the Mushroom Boulder before going back up. Amazing - the thing didn't displace a rock on the scree slope coming down, wasn't particularly alarmed by all the people and dogs and noise (it was a weekend). They've got the place to themselves of course these days...
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 22, 2007 - 02:26pm PT
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I've never heard of one attacking anyone who wasn't alone.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 22, 2007 - 02:32pm PT
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Hmmm. So much for that theory.
Plan B: fight back.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2007 - 02:38pm PT
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Interesting info...yes Rhodo there was recently an older couple out hiking in Orange County who were attacked (the husband was) by a cougar. He survived. And there have been attacks on mountain bikers while they've been in groups before too. I guess it depends on how desperate they're getting for food and/or water.
I don't want to be overly anxious while out, but I guess better safe than sorry when seeing something (seemingly big) in the bushes like that.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:15pm PT
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I used to do lots of trail running in the Verdugo Mtns. above Burbank and also the Angeles Crest high country from Mt. Williamson to Baden Powell. Never saw any lions in over 20 years. Then in the last 4-5 years I have seen more than a few while up near Williamson and 2 in the Verdugo's. They are gutsy and stand their ground. I am guessing the population has exploded in the last 20 years. I feel lucky to have seen them but I now run with the thought of a lion pouncing on my back. Also with 2 young kids I am hyper aware in the mountains now and NEVER let them wander off by themselves. I am convinced that some of the unsolved missing people incidents that have happened in the mountains have involved lion attacks. Just another observation, I have also noticed less and less bighorn sheep in the Angeles high country. When you are the top of the food chain there is very little to manage the numbers. Historically speaking I recall reading accounts of the California Grizzly killing lions. Then humans. No more California Grizzly, moratorium on hunting lions equals population explosion. Get used to more attacks in the future.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:21pm PT
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Carry a knife with an eight inch (or more) blade.
Some might be surprised to hear me say a handgun isn't much good, but consider the documented attacks.
They attack from behind and go for the back of the neck.
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:27pm PT
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Never know what's lurking out there, waiting to pounce.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:35pm PT
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A friend of mine told me about a bike ride he took up the Arroyo Seco behind JPL in Pasadena. He came upon a dead deer in the middle of the trail, went around it and rode for a few more minutes before getting freaked out thinking about lions. He turned around and when he got to the spot where the deer was it was gone. It had been dragged off. The lion had probably been sitting just feet away when he passed the first time.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Luxury rehabilitation treatment facility in Boise
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:40pm PT
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Just as long as the mtn lion isn't into kinky redneck skank, I'm ok with them.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:53pm PT
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The Beast in the Garden was an excellent 2003 book on this subject. Related to the cougar population explosion in Boulder, but relevant elsewhere. http://books.google.com/books?id=z3C7ygQ8ZOsC&dq=beast+in+the+garden&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=8PXNJlKpjx&sig=iPM6p-U6Yr7fKjSt15FlTkLqO-0
Historically, the population of black bears was in part kept down by grizzlies. Grizzlies are ominivores, but are the top predator on the food chain. Reintroducing grizzlies into the Sierra may suit some romantics, given that one is on California's flag, and might help reduce the number of black bears in Yosemite. Black bears, and to a lesser extent cougars, coyotes and wolves, are to some extent grizzly food. Though #46 wouldn't like it, and it seems very unlikely to actually happen.
I believe the last grizzly in California was killed in the 1920s, and suspect that few would welcome their reappearance.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 03:54pm PT
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once on a solo overnighter i thought i saw a cat watching me. i'm not sure tho. i was headed from the meadows down to the valley. i wasn't able to get onto the trail till around 4 that day, had dinner at vogelsang with the employee kids, then hiked down to merced lake. of course, part of that was in the dark so i was hiking by headlamp. i was looking around thinking of how lucky i was to be out in the mountains... then, off in the trees, i saw a pair of yellow eyes glinting. i threw rocks and waved sticks and yelled but thing didn't go away. i was wearing a big pack and making some noise so i wasn't too worried. i feel the safest in the mountains. i was just happy to be out in the mountains under a huge star speckled sky.
sky over endless mountains
all the junk that goes with being human
drops away...
a clear, attentive mind
has no meaning but that
which sees is truly seen...
a flick
in the moonlight
slips into juniper shadow:
back there unseen
cold proud eyes
of cougar or coyote
watch me rise and go
 gary snyder
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Aug 22, 2007 - 04:06pm PT
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How about a tag system for hunting similar to bear? Don't think it would ever happen but it might help swing the balance back to normal levels. Too many lions, not enough food. Cant be a good thing.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 04:38pm PT
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"Are mountain lion numbers increasing or decreasing in California?
Without an ongoing statewide mountain lion study, it is impossible to know what is happening on a statewide basis with populations. However, there are indications that mountain lion activity, such as depredation, attacks on people, and predation on prey populations, peaked in 1996, then decreased somewhat, and have remained stable for the past several years."
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/lion/lion_faq.html
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 22, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
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Loose the Hounds!
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Aug 22, 2007 - 04:41pm PT
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The last grizzly killed in California was in the Sespe Region between Ojai and Santa Paula. I only remember this because we have the specimen stuffed and posed in the local museum.
Mountain lions prefer hunting deer and rabbits. Yet when they are old, ill, starving or just hampered from the care of cubs; they get desperate.
Desperate lions don't care if we don't taste good, or are in groups.
I think that the expanding human population in California causes housing tracks to be built in mountain lion habitat. Plus we have more people going deeper in the mountains for recreation purposes... Mountain lions are getting use to people being around, they lose their natural aversion to humans and then start thinking of us as food.
I am not surprised at the attacks, just wondering when they are going to start doing regular prowls in the neighborhoods like coyotes.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
i said lay-daaay, step inside my hyundaaai
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Aug 22, 2007 - 04:59pm PT
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there is a mountain lion that lives in my neighborhood. a coworker who lives down the road told me that she saw it wandering thru her property over the weekend. there's also a sign that some guy put up on a phone pole that says (and i'm not kidding): "MOUNTAIN LION SPOTTED ON MAY 23. NOT AFRAID OF MAN OR 90 POUND DOG."
LOL! i personally am more concerned about the health risks of not exercising than i am of a cat. i'm sure i've been seen by cats many times. they are so stealthy. they're around and have been forever. there's tons of their natural prey here.
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onyourleft
Social climber
SmogAngeles
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Aug 22, 2007 - 05:06pm PT
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On Memorial Day weekend, I was riding my bike on Chevy Chase heading up towards Angeles Crest and a smallish Mtn Lion ran right across in front of me, stopped, stared at me momentarily and then bolted into some brush. It's the first one I've ever seen and this was in a very populated area between the San Gabes and the Verdugos. Likely they find a corridor between those two habitats.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Aug 22, 2007 - 05:14pm PT
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I've mentioned it before but I've noticed that the key to encountering lions in built up areas like the SF Peninsula is to be out and about when lions are active: late afternoon and early evenings are prime time. When I was out walking every evening in 2002-2003 after suffering a herniated disk I sure ran into enough lions at almost exactly that time of the evening where the color of their fur makes them almost invisible. Saw 1 cat in a tree below the main picnic area at Huddart Park in Woodside and then another huge one on Greer Road downhill from Huddart Park heading toward Woodside Store. There was a deer kill nearby, too. Also, encountered one in an oak tree in Edgewood County Park in Redwood City not far from Woodside. Also, saw a small one following a deer track, also at Edgewood. Now, this year out riding my road bike I saw a mother and two cubs in the picnic area at the lower end of Huddart Park. She looked like she was showing them the deer that graze on the lawn there, showing them the ropes, so to speak. That means I've seen about 7 of the suckers in 5 years, all quite close to human residences, which makes me think they're really quite common and no problem as long as there are tons of deer and rabbits to eat. Plenty of non-human prey in Woodside and Edgewood. Now, if the native deer were killed off by the spread of some disease, I think the danger factor would increase for humans.
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