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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 10, 2007 - 08:48pm PT
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""It is amazing how we all see what we want to see... until we are ready to open our eyes to other possibilities. Violence and aggression cause the eyes to swell shut. Open discussions and transparency only lead to better vision."
Sounds really noble and Karl-like but unfortunately it doesn't always work that way in the real world."
I'm all for the real world. And I'm all for hearing how, after 4 years of failure and inability of the Iraqis to take over and still losing American troops at the same or faster rate...How is that going to change via our occupation? Where do you see sucess coming from this failure?
How long would it take you to join the foreign invaders of a different religion and culture if you were an Iraqi? Put the shoe on the other foot. Image we were under occupation here so you just aren't imagining horsesh#t. When would you join the enemy?
Peace
Karl
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 10, 2007 - 10:47pm PT
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say lois, that was quite adequate of you.
please continue, suddenly, i'd like your take on valerie plame, the 2000 and 2004 elections, the response to katrina, gitmo, abu grahib, warrantles wire tapping, alberto gonzalez' sworn testimony in front of both the house and senate committees, dick cheney's establishment of a new intel agency w/in the pentagon that by-passed the annalysts at CIA, and via that agency, the use of stove-piped intel prior to the war, the comments of rumsfeld and condi (when was the last time you saw her in public? she is still sec of state!) wrt iraqi WMDs, teri schavio, the use of RNC email adresses for official business w/in the WH, jeff gannon, wow, i'm getting blisters over here...
...do continue dear, don't let me interupt you, by all means.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 10, 2007 - 10:53pm PT
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Lois,
Would you have put the SS in charge of post war reconsruction in Germany?
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 10, 2007 - 11:00pm PT
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lois- would you have invaded germany w/ just 150k troops, left all the amo dumps unguarded, and told the SS to just go home, never collecting any weapons other than what was abadoned on the battle field, and then tortured and humiliated a bunch of german POWs?
(i know TGT, it was 7 bad apple tenagers and some feminist part time general in charge, not an institutional problem at all...)
edit- cosmic, that's half way funny pal, nice one.
what's the difference between michael jackson and neil armstrong?
what's the difference between michael jackson and a grocery bag?
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 10, 2007 - 11:08pm PT
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lois, search the forum posts over the last 5 or 6 years baby
(for that matter, search the NYT, the new yorker magazine, or almost any other non-newscorp publication)
either way i expect your inviting ne to 'splain it all to you was but a stab at iroic humor...
you'll be tying in on the sharp end before i bother w/ you again.
it may be better to admit ignorance than to speak as if you are not ignorant, but i suggest stepping back to se the biggger picture, i.e. you might pay some attention to what it was you just copped to...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 10, 2007 - 11:09pm PT
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(i know TGT, 7 bad apple tenagers and some feminist part time general in charge, not an institutional problem at all...)
Even with a belly full of good steak and wine that sentence made absolutely no sense.
Since Matt calls the first hand experiences of those that are there "propaganda" and the ravings of idealouges with no first hand experience "fact" possibly he should indulge in a proper meal.
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 10, 2007 - 11:17pm PT
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TGT-
i fear that sentence made sense to almost everyone but you (ok maybe you and lois)
and if you scroll up to the email posted a few posts up, i don't consider that to be propoganda- "consider" - do you know what that word means?
so tell me, do you think the US government is attempting to engage in the process of spreading propoganda? in any way?
and what form(s) would you expect that to take?
what do you 'consider' to actually be propoganda?
(do you now what that word means?)
how about well spoken, 'privately funded' former green berets blogging from iraq?
nah... no way man, not a chance in hell, that stuff is entirely balanced.
(oops, i left out 'fair')
betchya that last parenthetic comment didn't make any sense eithere, did it, TGT?
Lois- those are not obscure topics toots
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 10, 2007 - 11:22pm PT
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I think all of us should go over there and fight with the solders for 1 year. Then we will all speak here again.
Who's in?
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 11, 2007 - 12:17am PT
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listen ya halfway ancient this and that, ain't nobody but you so thin skinned around here, and it is not impressive to the average american when anyone mentions the better known 1/5th of the major scandals that have defined this president and his band of crooks.
that you don't know who 'brownie' is, or that he did a "heck of a job" in the thouroughbred horse industry prior to geting an appointment to a job rove told bush was meaningless, or that you don't know what stove-piping means, or who doug feith is, or what the PNAC advocated (and when), or that you have never read the new yorker (and don't care to), or that you don't know who ms. karpinski is, or that you cannot differentiate between the context of the "perjury" charge that was tossed about at bill clinton and the obstruction of justice of which libby was convicted, or that you never heard about the now infamous refference to aspens changing colors together because of their being connected at their roots, that you cannot identify matthew cooper or how his experience differs from judy miller's-
none of those things make me smart, nor do they indicate that you are stupid, per se.
but there is some evidence that you are sheltered, perhaps obtuse, and seriously uninformed (some might even consider using the word 'ignorant', at least in the context we are speaking of here) about the major scandals of the last 7 years.
an uninformed citizen makes a poor participant in a democratic society, IMO, but perhaps we are to become a country of sheeple, 'informed' by newscorp (oh the irony of that name!!) and fed by monsanto (and what, prey tell, do you know of monsanto, lois?).
either way, TGT may be many things, but he is unlikely to be either soft or thin skinned, both of which i would use to describe you. i doubt he neds your advice as to how to react to my (apparently quite inflamatory) posts.
i think what is evident is that you dion't like your (occasionally quite obvious) short comings pointed out here in public, eh toots?
ps- those physics and legal questions are so damn contentious! how DO they ever manage to contain their passions!!! i'll bet your knitting friends don't squabble over the tea either, eh?
(what time does bill o'riely come on tonight? such a sexy man, and so honest too. how does he maintain such a nice young complexion?)
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 11, 2007 - 12:25am PT
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you feeble whiner, i never heard TGT complain about the tone on ST, not once,it seems you are just a crybaby!
lois, truthfully, i would tell you what i really think of you (again), but frankly you are far too boring to put the effort into the typing, i'm going out to get some dead raw fish, but please, do keep this fine and educational thread going until monday when i return....
(maybe you could go back to my complementary post above, and actually form your own opinion on any one or two of those events and their relationship to where we now find ourselves, politically, militarily, socially, whatever angle you want to go in is fine, the thread is all yours grandma...)
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:18am PT
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With all due respect, Crowley, this discussion is becoming trivialized and tangential with respect to the topic at hand
ummm, yeah baby, we noticed that too-
in fact, that process has already been identified and even named-
loisification [n] - process under which otherwise useful or interesting (or at least potentially interesting) discussion is depleted of any value, robbed of any compelling content, and sapped of any redeeming value whatsoever, sending the remaining discussion into the barren arena of conversations that have long since become long-winded and absent of worthwhile content; generally occurring in the presence of multiple posts by dr. kodos/ DMT/ Juan De F*#ker, using the improbable and overtly haggish moniker of 'LEB'.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:23am PT
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I look forward to the day that both Matt and Mathew eat raw fish from my sushi bar.
LMAO!
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:29am PT
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Matthew has 2 't's, biatch!!!
btw lo(u)is- many a ST regular emails me to comiserate over their pent-up distain for your (probably fake/troll) persona, just so ya know wher ya stand. yer kinda like the jr high hall monitor thinking yer a popular kid in school cause everyone knows what you look like...
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:36am PT
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You don'tt
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:39am PT
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Too Late.
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Matt
Trad climber
always on the lookout for ed's 5.10 OW van
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:40am PT
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if raw ttuna goes w/ sake, what does raw gatto go w/?
edit
check's in the mail, biattch
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Dr. Taco
Social climber
New Freedonia, Caledonia
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Aug 11, 2007 - 02:51am PT
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Dr. Taco is concerned that Nature's wares have been maligned by the peanut gallery.
It's gopher bait in your roll, goofball!
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Aug 11, 2007 - 03:08am PT
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peanuts....
BRILLIANT!
them sound good to put in a roll. Thanks for the idea.
The Jimmy Carter Roll here I come!
(talk about thread hijack - though what would Jimmy do in Iraq?)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2007 - 09:11pm PT
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Yep, peanut roll. Maybe y'all need to be back on topic...;
They want to kill you, dumbshit!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2007 - 09:18pm PT
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Is it all just propaganda? Or is it true? I'll tell you what I think...shortly....
Edit; did you read it A.C.? It's Arab texts translated into English in an honest manner...literally. Hmmm, not too tolerant or nice to others.
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