Question for Matt

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 61 - 70 of total 70 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Oct 2, 2004 - 01:59am PT

Tex is in Washington and Matt is in California. If we had the kind of system where Tex's vote could cancel Matt's, then Gore would have been president the past four years since he won the popular vote.

But California isn't in play. I haven't seen even one ad for Bush or Kerry here! Not on the Radio, TV or newspaper.

I could see why folks who don't understand facts might get upset if Matt beats them over the head with reality.

So I guess the Love NS asked about hasn't arrived yet. I've met Matt, and Flash, and a variety of other posters who come out with strong opinions and/or trolling online. (not that their online styles have anything in common) They all seem like good guys in person.

Funny how our concepts about things separate us and turn us against each other, in politics and climbing too.

Peace

karl

T-2

Mountain climber

Baldwin Park , Calif.

Oct 3, 2004 - 12:06am PT

Matt,
Thanks for the perspective. The Iraqi war is not unlike my generations debacle. As far as 'Nam goes, by '68 it was all over but the dying.And then seemed like it took forever to stop that.This is a climbing forum. However, we are all human beings first. You, Karl,the young grunt hunkering down in a rice paddy and the Iraqi in someone's gunsight right now. This too will come to an end someday. The question is will it be soon or later and how many more will die in the mean time?

Karl-good to hear some level headedness. I'd walk your slack anytime.
Peace, T-2

mtndncr

Trad climber

Berkeley

Oct 3, 2004 - 02:17am PT

Matt,
Nice Job, its good to ruffle a few feathers, but don't waste your time or energy w/lost souls like Satan, WOW, cool name!

Also, just for the record Matt, Bush has been issued the first F Grade ever for a President by the League of Conservation Voters. If anyone doesn't know who they are, call me, 510/848-0800 ext. 309. George W. is worse than his Dad, and even worse than Mr. Hollywood, who did his fair share of damage in the 80's. Bush is promoting his "Clear Skies Initiative", think about it. If this piece of legislation is passed, it will promote more air pollution and weaken the Clean Air Act! Yet, it's unfortunate, especially for those that like Bush that he would have you believe it is the CLEAR SKIES INITIATIVE. I know if I were a Bush supporter, I'd be extremely insulted. But I think its important to know that the number one reason kids miss school these days is because of Asthma.
Bush wants to open up ANWR, he did away w/the Roadless Rule and is already destroying Old Growth forests at an unprecedented rate, OH YEAh, didn't someone say the President doesn't really have any Power, right?????????????
He's attempted to weaken the Clean Water Act and is doing all he can to further set Back the Endangered Species Act, incidentally, for those that may not be aware, we are losing 100 species a day to extinction, the so called normal rate is supposed to be about 4 or 5 a YEAR! These aren't my stats, just check out E.O. Wilson, Harvard Professor. Stop, breath and THINK. .......
The Bush Administration does not acknowledge Global Warming, yeapper, it's just those unemployed tree hugging freaks trying to scare the world again. Did you hear that Russia is signing on to the Kyoto Treaty!

Matt, talking a little about politics is good, and Supertopos is as good a place as any.Thank you. I like to think that every climber that goes out and enjoys the natural beauty has an amazing understanding/connection to nature and would want to do EVERYTHING THEY COULD to protect it. The next 5 weeks will be the most critical time period "EVER" for the environmental movement, so promoting the GET OUT THE VOTE IS SMART and RESPONSIBLE.
I like what Greg Barnes says in the new guides about the "BIG PICTURE", but I realize there are many, many, many, ignorant people that will always be ignorant, so Matt, don't waste your time or energy w/lost souls like that, they will never get it and they will always be ignorant. Gosh Matt, you are a star, I look forward to your next post.

Cheers,
Bill W.

David

Trad climber

San Rafael, CA

Oct 3, 2004 - 11:55am PT

Karl wrote: “I could see why folks who don't understand facts might get upset if Matt beats them over the head with reality.”

Wow, that’s really an incredibly condescending comment. Your vision of reality doesn’t make something a fact. I think that it’s this same elitist tone causes Matt’s posts to be so grating at times. He assumes that if you disagree with him that it has be due to either ignorance or stupidity. Neither one of you are willing to accept the fact that the situation in the middle east is complicated and that two intelligent people could have different yet valid opinions that are both of merit and consideration. Look, I’ve met with Matt. He’s a nice guy and we’ve got along just fine but he does on occasion have an incredibly elitist tone when he tries to make a point. In the thread about the fallen solider he stuck his foot in his mouth by assuming that surely it must have been a reservist who was using the military to pay his rent. It never even occurred to him that the man who was killed had been proud of his service to the country. If someone disagrees with you it doesn’t mean they’re not intelligent or don’t have the facts right. I happened to graduate from college with Phi Beta Kappa, Summa C#m Laude and a bunch of other meaningless academic honors. That sh#t doesn’t mean anything except that it does imply that a bunch of bookworms seemed to think I wasn't a moron. My point is simple. Don’t assume that because someone disagrees with you that they are too dense to understand the facts.

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Oct 3, 2004 - 01:28pm PT

Hi David

I agree with you completely that intelligent people can have different opinions and perspectives on things. Just because I don't agree with them doesn't mean they are ignorant. Don't tell my girlfriend, but I'm often wrong.

On the other hand, intelligent folks designed atomic weapons and decided to invade Iraq as well.

Still, like some intelligent folks on the right, Matt is an intelligent guy on the left. At least he state reasons and facts (and sometimes alleged facts) to support his view. I salute folks on both sides that take this approach rather than ignoring facts and doggedly asserting their point. (but he's a flip-flopper, a flip-flopper, a flip-flopper!)

My comment was directed at folks who don't understand the facts, like the ones who only watch Fox news and think we found WMDs and Iraqi involvement in 9.11. Watchers of the Comedy channel recently beat out O'Reily's viewers on political knowledge.

My comment was particularly directed at Tex, whose idea that he could cancel out Matt's vote, even though they live in different states, demonstrated his lack of understanding for the facts.

Like Rummy says, you're entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. Some facts are in dispute, the workings of the electoral college aren't.

Peace

karl

David

Trad climber

San Rafael, CA

Oct 3, 2004 - 03:48pm PT

I came back to delete my post because I regretted letting myself get dragged in but it's too late. As usual Karl has already replied with a wise and level headed post. Anyway, sorry for the harsh words Karl and Matt. I'm trying to ween myself away from these threads. Matt's just good at pushing my buttons I guess.