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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Could be wrong, Lois, but your words sound awful familiar...
Kinda like the folks that think cows are the main cause of global warming and won't change their own lives one whit until the last piece of evident is produced that finally, finally proves human beings also have a hand in it.
Read Jstan's post again. Look what he and his family have done. Is he living in unspeakable poverty?
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jstan
climber
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LEB:
Hi again.
What Al Gore can or can't do is irrelevant. Whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant. People's perceptions of his attitude are irrelevant.
Is his data good? That is relevant. What should you do? That is relevant. The ball is literally in our court. Everything else is noise IMO.
Everywhere we look today we see and feel helplessness. Years ago I discovered this helplessness is all in our heads. You smash that feeling once and for all when you look at the data, make as informed a decision as possible and then whale at it with all you have. Let the devil take the hindmost.
Cheers,
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts."
 perennial SuperTopo anthem
And, as jstan observes, nothing more fun than than the old ad hominem attack. If you have nothing intelligent to say about the subject of debate, then attack the messenger. As politicans by nature are hypocritical, they're easy targets. (All of us, naturally, are clean and pure as the driven snow.)
The facts are still very much unknown, whether it comes to Al Gore's true energy and environmental footprint and if it's reasonable in the circumstances, or George Bush's eco-friendly home - if it is. And factoids don't mean much without perspective. But isn't it fun to beat them up and gossip anyway?
Martin Luther had a real bee in his bonnet about the sale of indulgences by the Catholic church. Pay money to church = get in the big guy's good books. Whether indulgences were actually effective or not is not within our ability to know. I do sometimes wonder if carbon credits are a real positive, and await more information.
Possibly Gore is a hypocrite - the jury is still out. He may still be delivering a valuable message, whether it's about global warming, or its underlying causes. If his work results in global warming being much higher on the agenda, and work being done to address the causes, we may still be much ahead.
Strange, Canada's leading global warming crusader recently came under similar attack. David Suzuki, a scientist/media personality/environmental leader. He's a geneticist, and made his name on a CBC program called the Nature of Things. Well respected. He's currently on some sort of cross-Canada tour to promote his views. Suddenly, a week ago, the real and supposed impacts of his tour became a big news media issue. Oddly, at much the same time, carbon credits suddenly came in for a bunch of criticism.
I agree that the idea of herds of scientists, politicians and environmentalists flying around the world to hold large conferences about global warming is a bit odd. But it may still be useful, even necessary. Though the underlying causes - overpopulation, unsustainable consumption - will be very hard to address.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jeeezus Lois...do you even read what people have been writing?
WHERE is the hypocricy in making his home more energy efficient?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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ADK
climber
truckee
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Dont be ridiculous, LEB... youve made your position very clear in previous posts.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Gore tailored his film around the most extreme computer models vis a vis the coming of global warming. He's no fool and knew exactly what he was doing. Even those--most of those--who see GW as a serious problem, don't adhere to the radical models. Gore has intentionally put himself in the limelight and, I'm sure, enjoying the publicity. His poll ratings are moving up; and, it's my belief that, if they move up enough, he'll jump into the race. I believe the film was nothing more than a way to to gain a good deal of attention and test the political waters, smart.
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ADK
climber
truckee
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LEB: Quite aside from any issues of hypocracy, would not one question the validity of my message. If it was so good, why was I not doing it, myself.
ADK and others: pointing out hypocracy is an easy way for you to sidestep the real issue.
LEB: I am specifically panning Gore as a blatant hypocrite and not the need to use energy wisely.
starting....3,2,1 NOW!
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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question for all ya here - how many of you turn off the power to transformers when you go to bed at night ? not just unplug the device from the charger, etc - most transformers are still drawing some current and converting it to heat even when there is no load...this applies to laptop cords, phone chargers, the cable modem, etc...
i'm guessing the load from these is significant in the developed world...and more load is more coal is more mercury in the air...
not trolling - honest question.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Here's the thing Lois. I get the feeling that you think Al Gore has spoken in a holier than thou way without ever really listening to Al Gore. Can to link us to something that he's said that's out of line and "holier than thou"
I doubt it. My guess is that you just know he is a poster child for the environmental movement and somehow that "gut of yours" just assumes he's "holier than thou."
Pointing out the fact is not holier than thou nor judgemental.
I'm sure he is not perfect, but neither are your means of knowledge.
Peace
Karl
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"Here is what I think is my position: 1. Global warming is occuring but it may or may not be man-made."
This is something that isn't really susceptible to "positions" - it's for the most part a matter of science. The International Panel on Climate Change, in its recent report, emphatically stated that global warming is occurring, that the main cause is the increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide (and other greenhouse gases), and that the main cause of that increase is human activity.
Yes, there is a small minority of scientists (often compromised by industry funding) that argue that the increase is less than claimed, or that there are other causes, etc. That's science. Their arguments haven't stood up very well. There may be some truth to some of what they say - but that doesn't make it true.
Belief is largely irrelevant to scientific debate.
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dirtbag
climber
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"Gore tailored his film around the most extreme computer models vis a vis the coming of global warming. "
Got evidence for that? Everything I've heard has said that except for a few picky points here and there, the science is on the money.
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ADK
climber
truckee
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Woody,
The temperature reconstruction data Gore uses in his movie and book have been the subject of debate in climatology. However, that debate only revolves around some of the older data...The right half of the hockey stick remains intact and climatologists as a whole strongly support the last 500 years of the data...
Its true, 500 years is a minute portion of the earths geological record, but if you look into other sources of paleoclimatological data stretching further back in time, youll find a periodic Temp vs. time function that in no way encompasses what is happening today. Orbital parameters, sunspots, volcaninc erruptions, biogenic emissions....none explain the current temperature rise.... Guess what does correlate with the current temperature rise! Sure, correlation doesnt imply causation, but without another explanantion, youll be hard pressed to disagree.
edit: dirtbag: search "Mann hockey stick controversy" on google. Woody's right to an extent...
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L
climber
The City of Lost Angels
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"The problem is less the hypocracy of Al Gore - he really does not matter except that he is a laughable target of criticism. It is more an issue that there is a problem with the message if even HE can't comply with it. Perhaps we ought be looking at why his proposed solutions don't work."--LEB
Lois--You wrote this above, and then 5 posts later change it 180 degrees. It sounds to me like you're reacting out of fear of the message, and murdering the messenger.
All the footage I've ever seen of Gore post-White House days has revealed a highly intelligent man with a mission to bring awareness to people that a major catastrophie is in the making. He has a remarkable sense of humor. He has passion about what he believes in. I have never seen one second of "holier-than-thou" posturing.
You seem obsessed in making him this mega-hypocrite, like any among us aren't hypocites! And you rant that he's not doing what he preaches, and ignore the many examples of him doing exactly what he preaches. But oh, now it's not fast enough for you. He "should've plugged the holes before preaching yada, yada, yada".
Like jstan and so many others have pointed out--attacking Gore is an easy, comfortable way of negating his message and not doing a damn thing about this crisis. Instead of wasting energy verbally debating Gore's merits, Do Something to alleviate the problem. It's here. It's real. And it starts with each of us, at a local level.
You might also want to really look at why you feel the need to "kill Gore" intellectually. Something's getting triggered in you that doesn't much have to do with his electric bills, I think.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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We'll we will certainly find out. Depending on how the publicity in the MSM and his poll numbers go--good and up, you'll probably see Gore running for president. That'll twist Hillary's panties all out of shape. Not only do I believe I'm right, I hope I'm right. It will be great fun to watch. Gore, Hillary and Obama battling it out would be almost as exciting and an afternoon watching gladiators rip and tear in old Rome, maybe even better.
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jstan
climber
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PMB:
Somewhere I saw a published report on power consumption by devices supposedly powered off. While I can not remember the number, you are right. It is uncomfortably large.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Whitey wrote:
This thread is a circle jerk. An Inconvenient Truth? No just an example of drooling wingnuts not talking about the issue that movie brings up, only pathetic slander directed towards Al Gore. Is there one post about this movie on this thread? No, just a bunch of chumps jacking off.
One would think all you dumbass global warming deniers would just approve of Al Gore using all this electricity if global warming isn't induced by humans burning fuels. I would think you dolts would just be cheering on Al Gore, instead you sound like a bunch of idiots.
Sean Hannity is a putz and just spews lies, he is the ultimate jackass, Rush is right there with him except he is chewing on a mouthful of Oxy. Both wouldn't know journalism if it was shoved up their ass.
Wow - such vitriol.
Show me one "dumbass global warming denier" (or any "denier") in this thread.
I have yet to see one in 118 posts. The whole point is that it's funny when
people so blatantly neglect to practice what they preach. It doesn't make
the message any less important, it just reflects badly on them. So was the "Putz"
who "just spews lies" lying when he had Arianna Huffington on the line and was
pointing out that she was flying around in private jets while telling others knott to drive SUVs?
Do you know what she said when Hannity asked her why?
"The jet was going there anyway"...
LOL! Man, that was priceless.
FWIW, I just recently saw An Inconvenient Truth. If Gore's chart going back 600,000
years (knott 2000 as noted above) is accurate, and the inferences are correct, then
there is a real problem. Personally, I would like to know more. I would like to know
how much we can really do about it, and how much of global warming is really caused
by us.
No need to call people names (other than Gore for being a hypocrite).
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Wild Bill
climber
Ca
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Thank you, L, for that post.
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ADK
climber
truckee
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Thanks for pointing that out PMB...I had no idea.
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dirtbag
climber
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Good post L, but I doubt Lois will read it.
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