Bolting between existing cracks at Suicide rock

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 61 - 80 of total 100 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Oct 10, 2017 - 05:24pm PT

^^^^

What he said. And double down on the kudos for coming out of the woodwork.

Cheers

Llama

Big Wall climber

Never close enough to the good stuff, CA

Oct 10, 2017 - 05:29pm PT

Definitely no ego here, Rhodes. Had that been the case I would have been spraying about it everywhere. I did this in an attempt to add to the crag, not distract from it.

If Mike and Russ say it should go, it shall go. I have no qualms about it honestly. I got to experience the route in a unique way and thought, along with others, that it would be a positive addition.

Not sure who posted on MP about the bolts but I am certainly still climbing though not as active in Idy as I have been in the past. My focus has been on obscrure repeats and FAs in other areas. Don't worry, though, I haven't added any errant bolts elsewhere.
I'll get around to the rehab sometime in the next few months.
Cheers all

Trad climber

JTree & Idyllwild

Oct 10, 2017 - 06:05pm PT

Hi Llama. Thanks for considering removing the bolts.

I've done my fair share of squeeze jobs, but I think a good "rule of thumb" is this: If your fingertips are touching a protectable crack, then you shouldn't be able to lean sideways and clip a bolt, even if you have the ape index of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. It's a good minimum guideline.

In the hundreds of new routes I've done at JTree and Idyllwild, I've probably violated my own rule for a placement or two, but it's a rule I try to stick to.

Every area and crag is different, but undisputed classics deserve an even wider gap.

Llama

Big Wall climber

Never close enough to the good stuff, CA

Oct 10, 2017 - 08:14pm PT

Haha perhaps he was!

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2017 - 09:06pm PT

Strong work community.

I reached over and touched two of the bolts when I followed Gritstone Dave up the route.
They are really nice stainless / stainles , shinny bolts.

Hubbard- I'll show you some of those routes you asked about.

Rotting Johny- see you at the green church.

Llama- I would love to help you with that.

Alois- you make a mean paella!

E

RhoadsClimbs

Trad climber

Oct 11, 2017 - 04:18am PT

Llama, I am wondering more about your motivation. Why was a TR not satisfactory enough? Why did you want to lead it, could you expand your thoughts?

Also, for the record, I would be all for adding bolts if they are drilled from a stance, ala the local ethic. Times are coming where consulting the FA may no longer be possible so I think some kind of new ethical standard and protocol is needed for the future.

*Also, I would want this route to stay if there was going to be any marks left over after a chop. I think our point has been made and to create scars is pointless.

Llama

Big Wall climber

Never close enough to the good stuff, CA

Oct 11, 2017 - 07:38am PT

Rhoads, I think the intentions were explained well enough earlier in the thread.

the hardware will be removed. I've replaced lots of hardware over the years and have a good setup for that so the impact will be quite minimal.

RhoadsClimbs

Trad climber

Oct 12, 2017 - 04:54am PT

Instead of removing the bolts how about replacing the bolts on P2 of Fred? That would bring more to the community in my opinion.

mooch

Trad climber

Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)

Oct 12, 2017 - 11:11am PT

Pulling is better and more ecological.

Unless they are Rawls or Hilti removables or something similar, one can one hope they overdrilled and they can be slammed home and covered.

Edit: Thanks Llama! More importantly, you were transparent and laid it out for all to see. Huge respect!

RhoadsClimbs

Trad climber

Oct 13, 2017 - 04:20am PT

What's the best way to pop those old 1/4 bolts?

Hubbard

climber

San Diego

Oct 13, 2017 - 08:01pm PT

I was replacing an old buttonhead 1/4 inch, prying with a claw hammer with apiece of wood to protect the rock. All of a sudden the buttonhead popped out with a ping and flew by my face like a bullet and off into the void. If it would have hit me in the eye, I wouldn't have one anymore. Moral; wear goggles.

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2017 - 10:17am PT

I was so impressed with the communication on this thread, and another poster asked what routes I have done up there in the past, so I'll offer up this one:

In the early 70's +\- I led the route between Winter Solstice and The Hernia. I placed nuts in the crack and I drilled two 1/4" bolts above the crack. (Getting to the crack has gotten several grades harder since then).
Kevin Powell and Darrel Hensel were furious and stated that the route had been soloed by the Chongo Brothers ( no relation to Congo Chuck ).
It got chopped imidiatly in a sloppy way by an annonomys chopper.

It has been rap bolted since then with bolts above and below the crack.

I never drilled another bolt on Suicide or Tahquitz after that. ( I have drilled sparingly throughout the San Jacinto's and only to save my ass on a first ascent since then ).

I am curious what y'all think, and who chopped the origional two bolts?

Peace
Ernesto Ale

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2017 - 10:35am PT

Hubbard-
I replaced a couple of rappel/ belay bolts on top of a spire near Tahquitz about 20 years ago.
20 years earlier I had put some brightly colored 1" tubular slings on the original bolts that had turned white and some points had worn all the way thru from the wind.
Upon the initial prying the old bolts flew! Out and into the void! They came out many times easier than I had expected.

My last years of hauling a hand drill around the back (ish) country, I placed only 1/4" button heads and slung a small wired stopper on the bolt head.
If you see any of those- that's " my " route. We never bailed from one of those so you can assume things go up from there.
I don't carry a drill anymore.
We did not report any of these climbs not to " keep them a secret " but to leave the mystery and adventure intact. ( also, we had many other passions and projects and in my case lawyers and ex wives to pay off.)

I have climbed Snow Creek Wall about 5 times and man! There is a ton of multi pitch up there! I have not touched that area yet. Have seen some tat on the walls tho.

I currently am exploring a crag that takes two hrs to hike to without a pack! I stashed a rack and rope up there a year ago. Lots of old bolts up there from a guy named Paul Moro? And other folks. I like not knowing how hard or who put it up sometimes.
Ernesto

bootysatva

Trad climber

Idyllwild / Joshua Tree Ca.

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2017 - 10:40am PT

Llama:
We should go up and lead your route and try and avoid some or all of the bolts by using gear.
Maybe one or more of your bolts are warranted?
Just have a lot of respect for how you handled this even tho not all the posts were compassionate.
Ernesto

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Oct 15, 2017 - 03:58pm PT

Ernesto, you must know Warren Egbert? I climbed with him up there some in the 80's. He was doing some routes on a crag all the way up and over from Humber, maybe kind of east s/e. I never went out there with him, not for lack of an invite. I totally lost track of him quite a while ago. Do you have any idea what he's been up to?

Alois

Trad climber

Idyllwild, California

Oct 16, 2017 - 07:41am PT

Ernesto

The guys who did all that climbing up there in the late 70s and early 80s were Paul Morrill (SP?) and Bob Harvey. They lived in Pine Cove and put up lot of the routes in the backcountry. Bob was killed on New Zealand's Mt Cook in the late 80s. Paul lives in Colorado.

micronut

Trad climber

Fresno/Clovis, ca

Oct 16, 2017 - 08:40am PT

Just read through this thread out of curiosity. Well done on a fine and civil conversation......rare for the internet these days. I think the bolts should stay if not already removed. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of the approach to the line and it looks like a fun climb. And after all, enjoyment of the line, the rock, the location and the moves is the name of the game!

mooch

Trad climber

Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)

Oct 16, 2017 - 09:41am PT

Wait.....as I recall, this is an established line (TR) 'Decapitation'. Who was the route author and did they give permission? Regardless if it was been a long standing TR, if this was bolted by another person other than the route FAist WITHOUT permission.......chippity chop!