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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Nov 12, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
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Is this the thread where you guys whip it out and start measuring? 'Cause if it is, let me know and I'll sell tickets.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 12, 2015 - 12:53pm PT
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Do the math.....climbing gyms are growing exponentially. Within two decades gym climbers will constitute the most important electorate and they will demand that El Cap be comfortized.
Doming and climate control are inevitable as will be color coded holds and bolts no more than a body length apart. Yosemite granite is far too featureless for today's tastes and we all know that crack climbing is painful to a fault.
There will be an expesso stand and sushi bar at the base of Moby Dick along with spinning and pilate classes for those who don't want to get off the ground. Selfie sticks will be issued on admittance which can only be gained by presenting a belay card issued by an accredited gym.
Fortunately, the curmudgeons on ST, myself included, will be safely packed away in nursing homes or under six feet of loamy turf.
Embrace change or pay the price!
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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Nov 12, 2015 - 01:00pm PT
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Aw, its so nice to see JLP still getting everyone all riled up...
I'm not really sure why he comes on here only to make up slander about guys who are actually out there getting it done.
Really makes you sound petty, jealous, insecure and lacking in talent.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 12, 2015 - 01:30pm PT
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Mikey - fact noted - but what did you tell your GF when she clipped that thing?
Mark - I think your underhanded fixed rope comments will carry more weight after you send. Meanwhile, it's my casual and somewhat distant observation that the majority of actual sends of that route come after rehearsal from the top. Most of the "I'm old school ground up man" types end up as aid climbers.
Style gets worse as the route gets harder. This has been going on since the beginning. Who is to deny someone's dream?
Otherwise - agree with OP gist and James' comments - leave the place better than you found it and be considerate of others. Kind of simple stuff.
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Nov 12, 2015 - 03:01pm PT
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If you need two ropes to rap, then it is a shitty sports crag. Sorry.
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ryankelly
Trad climber
Bhumi
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Nov 12, 2015 - 03:03pm PT
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You ever see the Big Lebowski?
When Walter is ranting and then asks, "Am I wrong? Am I wrong!?"
And the Dude goes, "No Walter, you're just an a**hole"
plus this guys not really that right....who is he anyway? This kind of negativity has the tendency to drive away people who actually climb and have something interesting say about it. I'd rather hear from Yosemite first ascensionists like Mikey and Crusty Donini then half cooked rants any day...
People who have done Free Rider group during their first trip up it, that I know of off top of my head:
Ethan Pringle
Eric Bissell
and i'm sure there are more
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Nov 12, 2015 - 03:05pm PT
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El Cap Rack! Anyone know any locals with extra bolts?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 15, 2015 - 11:24am PT
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Wanted to add, there is a lot of gray area here. Both, the ground up and top down rehearsal of the pitches are fine ways to free El Cap. These are personal accomplishments. As long as you are honest about what you did and are not a dick to those above or below you, wish you all the luck. To me personally, it is really motivating to see those with enough skills to do the route ground up over two days. Or in a day after working the route for 5 years. Or over 20 days after working the route for 8. The point is to push own limits, and every climber has own bag of skills/natural talent and a vision of how to improve in order to make their dream a reality. To me it seems like a good idea to throw yourself on varied stuff, from climbing ice, to hard aid, long routes and single pitch hard "projects." If you are projecting, minimum impact is fairly important to avoid diminishing the experience for other people. But than...wall climbing has involved a cluster of gear and fixed ropes. Look at the people like PTPP who bring a cluster of things and have a blast on the wall. Fixing pitches, hanging out on the ledge for days etc. I think it is perfectly fine to do what he does, since that is his personal idea of fun. Won't get him the Nose speed record, but that is not the point of wall climbing for him, right? Anyway...don't leave your trash on top, be nice to those around and find a challenging way to climb el cap for yourself. Let the other climbers make own choices with regards how they want to climb it. If el cap is too busy for your taste, as we know there are plenty of other walls in the CA and world.
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overwatch
climber
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Nov 15, 2015 - 11:30am PT
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Jillypee
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 15, 2015 - 11:54am PT
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I agree, top-down vs. bottom-up climbing is a personal decision...but...
In the specific case of the salathe-area free-climbs, there is a whole other set of considerations to consider.
When I was up on the salathe a few months ago:
1) a korean team of 5 had fixed 20 pitches up to el cap spire, and were sleeping on the ground.
2) a spanish team had rapped in from the top to leave there bags at the spire
3) various other teams were jugging up to heart ledges, deciding to forego the first ten pitches of climbing or so.
On a popular route like the salathe, having climbers, essentially, starting the route wherever they feel like it makes it very difficult to tell how many people are on the route, and to tell who has 'first dibs' for limited sleeping spots.
The practice of starting a route from the bottom and going to the top gets rid of this confusion (along with being a rational way to do a rock climb).
With some luck, Mikey will be right, and the salathe will become like astroman-- a climb done free (or mostly free), and in a day.
matt
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Nov 15, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
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The practice of starting a route from the bottom and going to the top gets rid of this confusion (along with being a rational way to do a rock climb).
Did you haul the Freeblast?
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 15, 2015 - 12:13pm PT
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I hauled my sh!t up that brutal miserable free blast low angle slabs several times.
THEN !!!!
When we did "Son of Heart" we hauled up the fixed line to the heart ledge.
Muwahahaha ......
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 15, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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a korean team of 5 had fixed 20 pitches up to el cap spire, and were sleeping on the ground.
Too bad those guys are not on supertopo so that they could line up with our proper style. Maybe they looked at the Dawn Wall climb and thought it was no big deal to fix a 2000 ft line on El Cap?
I actually heard of a 6 man team from Korea with one leader, nailing on Half Dome's regular route a few years ago...people do things differently.
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ryankelly
Trad climber
Bhumi
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Nov 16, 2015 - 08:21am PT
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First, I am in no way attacking our beloved heroes Tommy and Kevin, but Vitaliy brings up a point that someone else mentioned to me...
The incredible exposure of the Dawn Wall and its associated 1000s of feet of fixed lines to countless people must have some impact on what people think are acceptable El Cap Ethics.
But really this thread is about picking up trash and staying out of people's way which it seems like Tommy and Kevin did pretty well.
This thread is getting boring, can someone post a cat picture or insult someone please?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
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Nov 16, 2015 - 04:01pm PT
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It's getting overcrowded on the front range with vast numbers of gym climbers. I went to this new gym Momentum, it was like a rock concert with 200+ people just standing around. More and more trad areas are seeing sport routes going up. We have a massive capacity to absorb more climbers, as does Utah, but fixed lines and new bolts have to be banned in Yosemite. The way to preserve Yosemite in the long run is to designate it as a protected wilderness area. Or at least the parts of Yosemite getting damaged (ie el cap)
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nov 16, 2015 - 04:27pm PT
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With the exploding numbers of "climbers", I fear for anything that is less than a 30 min walk from the road. Strong within them, the force of convenience is.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 16, 2015 - 05:36pm PT
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So walk, it won't kill you. Vitaliy has discovered that a little (make that alot of) walking can still lead to significant first ascents in the Sierra....a range most people feel is worked over.
Climbers bred in gyms aren't necessarily attuned to the idea of being more than the length of an umbilical cord away from creature comforts.
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