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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Apr 27, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
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Werner, I really felt similar, re your first post on response to this thread.
But history keeps individuals alive after they have gone. It does have value.
It's not just the younger who have never learned stories - I was talking to a climbing partner of mine, over 70 year old, and mentioned Steve Petro and Jim Collins, in the context of different conversations, and he had heard of neither.
If someone tells a good story, and the story is spread, people learn the history. This is what Steve Grossman is trying to accomplish, no? This is why I subscribe to a climbing magazine - I read good stories every month. this is what people do here on the Taco. Good stuff.
phyl
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Flip Flop
climber
salad bowl, california
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Apr 27, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
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Tutokanula
Galen Clark
George Anderson
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 27, 2015 - 08:14pm PT
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Yosemite’s Pioneer Cemetery
I live across the street from there.
The ghosts come out of there in the stormy night winters.
I've seen them ......
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Apr 27, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
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Warbler, will do, seriously....if I can't get the story I know Tommy will help.
Werner, talk about ghosts, come visit Tioga Pass Resort. Oh yeah! We'll put you in one of the "special" cabins.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 27, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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I would agree, studly. I think lots of climbing achievements rank at the top of the scale of human athletic accomplishments. To tout it as her one upping the men only draws attention to the fact that men have always one upped women across the board in every other facet of climbing. Other than pregnant ascents. Hahahahah!
Honor the story tellers. That's how history thru the ages has been passed down to the many generations.....that listen. This is why I don't like the term "spray," it deters people from telling the stories we love.
I'm relatively young and love history, maybe because it helps me find places where there is none... Sorry Yosemite Valley
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jstan
climber
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Apr 27, 2015 - 09:49pm PT
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Since we are deep into history, here is a trip report written by Guy Waterman in 1978.
The International Climbing Clubs Expedition to Northern Pillar
First reports have begun to filter back from the Shawangunks on the fate of the
ill-starred International Climbing Club’s Expedition to Northern Pillar. Despite
the array of some of the best climbing talent from among the various clubs that
climb in the Shawangunks, it appears the massive undertaking has not been
successful.
Christian Dhyrenhoffer was the leader who conceived and organized the
International Expedition. For it, he assembled a diverse team of stars from the
mountaineering world. This very fact may have created part of the problem that
was to plague the expedition; too many top-flight individuals and not enough
teamwork or experience at working together.
The group included:
Kevin Bein of the Harvard Mountaineering Club
Paul Harrison of the Dartmouth Mountaineering Club
Paul LeDoux of the MIT Outing Club
Dick Williams of the New Vulgarian Mountain Club
Lester Germer of the Old Vulgarian Mountin Club
John Monten &
Walter Baumann of the Degenerate Mountain Club
Jim Waterman of DMC, also repesenting the largest
Climbing organization in the East – his family
Ira Brant and Herb Cahn of the Appalachian Mountain Club
Leon Greenman of Leon Greenman Inc.
Harry Hunt of Camp and Trail Outfitters
Gardner Perry of Gardner Perry Inc.
Dhyrenhoffer, leader
Although this obviously represented a uniformly high level of technical climbing
ability, the average age was high for a Shawangunks expedition; 48 years. (Of
course when Lester Germer dropped out the average age dropped to 22—but
still it is well known that most of the good climbs now done at the
Shawangunks are done by people 15 years old or younger.)
A bigger problem for the International Expedition was that despite the great
array of climbing talent, the members did not even have a common language,
did not all know each other, and had never worked together as a team.
For example, consider the problems when Greenman, Hunt, and Perry were
together on one rope. They obviously did not speak the same language and
therefore could not be expected to work together smoothly. It was not
altogether surprising to learn of incidents such as Greenman sinking his alpine
hammer into Hunt’s achille’s tendon, Hunt severing the fixed rope Greenman
was ascending and Perry pushing both of them into a crevasse. (These
incidents were faithfully reported by Williams, as objective observer of them.
William’s account failed to mention what happened to Perry, but none of the
three has since been heard from.)
A preview of some of the expedition’s troubles was detected even earlier, when
base Camp supplies were opened on the Carriage Road directly below the pillar.
Dhyrenhoffer had delegated the purchase of food to Baumann. When the 900
porters (hired from among the high school girls brought up to the cliffs during
the past season by Sirdar Dave Loeks) unloaded the 2700 food packages, it was
discovered that Baumann had included 10 boxes of Cornish game Hen, 10
boxes of Kippered Snacks, 10 boxes of larks tougues, and 2670 cases of a local
brew, pronounced inferior by Williams, shortly before his speech became
entirely unintelligible.
A further problem unfolded when Dhyrenhoffer’s climbing plans were
disclosed. The main attempt was to be up the fearsome Northern Pillar. But
Dhyrenhoffer had another card up his sleeve. Although most previous parties to
climb the pillar had taken either the Madame G route, or Le Teton, or Cemetary
Wall – all basically walkups; the intimidating Southern Pillar route had been
pioneered by the Americans in 1963 ( Americans like Hans Kraus, Fritz
Weissner, and other Mayflower descendents). The Southern Pillar involved
serious technical climbing.
Dhyrenhoffer’s game plan was to send a second team up the Southern Pillar.
For this route he had picked Bein, Harrison and LeDoux; apparently promising
Bein he could be the first Harvardman up the pillar, Harrison that he could be
the first Dartmouthman, and LeDoux that he could be the first
Massachsettsinstituteoftechnologyman.
He had still one further trick up his sleeve. The first woman to climb the pillar
would have a modest niche in mountain climbing history. In picking the right
person however, Dhyrenhoffer encountered unexpected troubles. First he had
delegated Monten to select the woman; he had one picked out alright, but
somehow that fell through. Then he asked Brant to pick one; this seemed set
till it was discovered Raquel Welch couldn’t climb (mountains). Finally at the last
moment he had requested Williams to pick the person. Apparently Williams
misunderstood the function the woman was to fill on the expedition, so
Dhyrenhoffer’s plans were thwarted. However an excellent mutton stew
provided the party with fresh meat dinners for several days.
As it turned out, tragedy struck during the early days of work on the Southern
Pillar route. Williams and Germer had descended to Emile’s which is where the
whole party would generally go after putting in a long day on the pillar
(generally around 1:30). Although a superb climber Williams was not
accustomed to Emile’s, having done most of his difficult technical work in
recent years at the Homestead. He got hung up on a keg and could not get off
it. His partner returned to Base Camp on the Carriage Road and went to sleep.
When daylight descended and Williams had still not returned, a rescue party
was formed with Bein, Monten and Baumann. Most of the party never reached
Williams, getting pinned down themselves near the door when Bein made a
simple Sicilian gesture to the bartender that was interpreted as an order for a
pitcher, which of course had to be consumed. At one point Baumann did make
a daring traverse, unroped, to the point where Williams lay. Seeing that Williams
was unconscious and determining that nothing could be done, Baumann with
his characteristic British understatement yelled, “You goddamn
motherf*#kereatshit”, and returned to his comrades.
When this news reached Base Camp, the party was thunderstruck. At that point
Dhyrenhoffer made a decision which was to split the party with dissension. He
cancelled the attack on Southern Pillar to concentrate all remaining efforts and
resources on the Northern Pillar. Further, he passed over Germer and
Waterman, a smoothly matched team whose turn it was to lead, and selected
Cahn and Brant for the summit bid. Brant and Cahn are about the hottest rock
and gin team in the climbing world now, but Dhyrenhoffer’s decision did not sit
well.
Bein, Harrison, and LeDoux revolted. Bein resigned from the expedition with
this blast: “They expect me, Kevin Bein, Harvard Mountaineering Club member,
employee of Leon Greenman, INC., 132 Spring St., to work as a sherpa for
Anglosaxons and Japanese. (sic) Never! This is not me but Harvard they have
insulted.” Harrison and LeDoux also quit, as did Waterman and Germer.
(Actually Germer’s principle complaint involved the decision to discard his 1939
hemp rope in favor of a modern variety that Germer regarded as insufficiently
tested.)
Curiously, at this juncture a serious bid to climb Northern Pillar was made by
Brant and Cahn, supported by Monten and Baumann.
After two months of hard work the party had succeeded in pushing from the
Carriage Road to the base of the pillar. From here Brant and Cahn found a route
up a holdless wall 90 feet to a camp at 1140 feet on April 23. On May 10 they
found a campsite at 1190 feet on a tiny ledge. Then on May 17 they fought
their way to a final camp at 1220 feet, at the start of the huge intimidating
Merkyl Cracks( or Kraus Cracks).
At this point Brant and Cahn had been on the mountain 17 days straight, living
on martinis and olives straight. This was a longer time than anyone had ever
spent on a climb in the Shawangunks (except of course, Dave Ingalls). Whether
the ordeal had clouded their judgment or not is uncertain, but on May 19
Dhyrenhoffer at Base Camp fired off a red rocket, indicating Emile’s would open
at 10AM instead of 1PM. Brant and Cahn set off on a dash for the summit.
The fact was, however, Brant and Cahn had run out of gin and had to turn back.
They had been relying on Monten and Baumann in support to keep them
supplied. But toward the end the loads which the support party started off with
full, were nearly always empty by the time they reached high camp.
The International Climbing Clubs Expedition to Northern Pillar thus ended in
frustration and defeat. It is understood that Dhyrenhoffer feels that his effort
was a worthy successor to the major 1971 expeditions to the Himalaya, that it
learned much from them, and probably accomplished more than some of them.
Perhaps the International Climbing Clubs Expedition to Northern Pillar will point
the way to still greater mountaineering achievements in the future.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Apr 27, 2015 - 11:34pm PT
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^^^Thats quite someth'in JStan TFPU!
Is there a longer version somewhere?
This is turning out to be a great thread!
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 27, 2015 - 11:49pm PT
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Mugs Stump???
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Apr 28, 2015 - 09:14am PT
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My previous comments were more about climbing history in general. If Yosemite can get it together and allow for a museum to open then obviously that will (as long as it's open) continue to help keep its history remembered.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2015 - 10:11am PT
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I have been thinking about Ron's earlier post regarding the dismissal of Jim in the current C4 SAR. It actually angers me! That team would not be there if it were not for Jim.
Standing on the shoulders of giants.
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BBA
Social climber
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Apr 28, 2015 - 10:51am PT
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Tom Rixon was Henry Knoll's partner on the first attempt of The Arrowhead Chimney, from the August 1942 Sierra Club Bulletin.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 28, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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Rixon's Pinnacle got its name because Tom Rixon proposed it as a climbing problem, according to the Sierra Club Bulletin. Rixon was also on the first ascent of the Old Original route on Machete Ridge in Pinnacles.
Great story, jstan. Emile's was a legend of mythical proportions in my own mind, particularly after Joe Kelsey's hilarious tale in Summit in the early 1970's, (I think it was called "The Oceana Wall," but I'd have to check when I get home.) How could one not love Joe's line: "If only Mozart could see Mr. Cask!"
Finally, after some comments above, and with "Valley Uprising" fresh in my mind, I think the alleged Robbins-Harding rivalry was much less consequential than the Robbins-Cooper one. Harding was sui generis. I really don't remember anyone trying to emulate him, other than treating climbing as a source of fun.
John
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Byran
climber
San Jose, CA
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Apr 28, 2015 - 11:21am PT
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Maybe this is an opportunity for Bridwell to do an episode for the CBS tv show Undercover Boss.
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Highlife
Trad climber
California
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Apr 28, 2015 - 11:35am PT
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I don't post much on here. But was lurking and saw the above comments about the SAR site dismissing Jim Bridwell. I've been on the site for a number of years now and that's not the case at all, and I think that's a bogus inflammatory statement (i know I know, its the supertaco) aimed solely to put down the new generation (although I guess that's what this thread is about). But besides what were gonna climb next, one of the most common topics of conversation is how bad ass and inspiring the people that came before us were and how in awe of them we are to this day.
I don't know of any SAR siter who hasn't sat around the SAR parking area and listened raptly to Werner tell stories about the 70s.
I also know of the situation in question, which happened before I arrived on the team, and heard a different spin on the story (I know its all about perspective, and I'll guess there's truth on both sides) I also know that the women with whom that interaction took place was not on the SAR site, but the wife and/or fiance of a new member who was not there.
So anyways, far be it from me to expect civility from this crowd. But not super psyched to see the SAR sites name being publicly dragged through the mud because of one bad interaction someone had with Jim Bridwell 7 years ago.
Have fun with the internet bashing!
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Highlife
Trad climber
California
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Apr 28, 2015 - 11:37am PT
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Also, in the last 5 years I have never seen any yellow tape wrapped around the SAR site.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Apr 28, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
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Budmiller, I respect your statement and glad you can back the incident. How is what I said an "inflammatory statement"? It happened, you so much as say that, in that you know of the women and the incident happened. I am not trying to put SAR or the younger generation down in anyway. I've had many friends and great times in the SAR site. I was only relaying a story that indeed happen as related to "Pioneers Be Forgotten", SAR does a great job and service to all that need those services while in the park. Like I said....we laughed about it on the way back to the truck.
I'd be interested in knowing how you found out about it. Anyway, no ill intent on my post, you guys save a lot of butts!
Peace
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
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Bud,
Thanks so much for the other take on this. always two sides to any story!
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Apr 28, 2015 - 03:38pm PT
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That's cool Tami. Me I was into learning the history of climbing too. I'm more of a math guy but some folks just love history - great!
What bothers me is more the moral judgment attached to our valuing climbing history - I cringed when I heard someone who didn't know the history, those poor lost souls who haven't followed my path of learning the history, etc. Sure it's cool if many of us enjoy the history that's great! Let's keep that history alive if it's important to us to validate and glorify our paths and experiences compared to others (those insolent whippersnappers!) paths and experiences.
But Me i think my kids are cool, non lost soul, super uncringeworthy even if they don't care about our history :-) Hey they're just like you!
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son of stan
Boulder climber
San Jose CA
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Apr 28, 2015 - 04:00pm PT
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Pioneers, by definition, arrive on horses or wagons pulled
by critters with 4 legs.
If, on the other hand, your arrival in the valley is heralded
by empty beer cans falling onto the ground, as you exit the door of
your gasoline powered car. You may be a hero but still just a tourist
dirtbag climber.
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