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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
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A violently resisting subject has gained access to the inside of a police vehicle that has firearms.
The legal question is, "what would a reasonable officer do?"
It seems likely, based on the limited available evidence, that a reasonable officer would have used deadly force, which makes the rangers legally justified in what they did.
If you are resisting a police officer, and you reach for a firearm, expect to be shot 100% of the time.
Shooting people in the legs or knee-caps, using imaginary net deployment devices, somehow cuffing a strong, mentally-ill, non-compliant subject, or letting a subject go who is quite clearly a threat a public safety, are not options.
Bummer, but the officers were justified in what they did, and the subject's actions dictated the outcome of the incident. (Based on the limited available evidence)
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
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If you are resisting a police officer, and you reach for a firearm, expect to be shot 100% of the time.
Bummer, but they officers were justified in what they did, and the subject's actions dictated the outcome of the incident.
There really ain't much left to say. The man speaks the truth.
I've been on drugs when interacting with LEOs before... but I've also been compliant and didn't reach for any guns. It really isn't that hard to avoid trouble with cops.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
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what you are missing frankie is that he didn't need to be shot and killed until the officers created this situation for him where he needs to be shot and killed
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
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Wow, wait a second! New information!
I don't remember hearing that the LEOs created the situation where the victim was risking other people's safety and then created the situation where he was non-compliant and then forced to blow off several tazers and pepper spray and then create the situation where he was forced to go for the gun in the car!
I can't believe they would create such a situation for this poor innocent man who was just minding his own business walking in and out of on coming traffic and starting confrontation with bikers.
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 08:33pm PT
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Great sarcasm Mechrist!
Maybe this part should be repeated from the BLM statement?
"BLM received several reports from citizens who were concerned for the safety of a man walking along the highly trafficked State Route 159 highway. The citizens reported the man was walking in and out of on-coming traffic. In addition, two cyclists who were bicycling along the highway reported seeing this same man and expressed fear for themselves and the safety of others in the area. "
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lubbockclimber
Trad climber
lubbock,tx
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Feb 21, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
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Welcome to the USA land of the police state.
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cuvvy
Sport climber
arkansas
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Feb 21, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
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They pumped 8 rounds into the guy? I think they showed some restraint considering each clip probably held 13 plus rounds , no? 4 rounds per officer in an adrenaline situation,not too over reactive. Or were there more than 3 cops? would bring the per cop bullet count even lower. Sucks someone died for sure, but nice the officers said hello to their families that night.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Feb 21, 2014 - 09:11pm PT
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I wonder if he was an organ donor.
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
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It really isn't that hard to avoid trouble with cops. Unless you're Black.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
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Right... if the guy had been white and did the same thing he'd be fine.
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
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That's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that a black male will have a totally different experience with a cop than a white male. That is a fact.
Law enforcement have acknowledged that they profile and there are plenty of examples of cops rushing to judgement when they encounter some who is black.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
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I'm simply saying that a black male will have a totally different experience with a cop than a white male. That is a fact.
That has nothing to do with this case. If the victim had been white but acted exactly the same way you think the outcome would have been different?
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
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I don't know. Nobody can say for sure, but if I were a betting man, my money would say yes.
I do stick by my earlier statements about cops and these ones in particular.
Law enforcement do not protect and serve. Their only purpose is for social control and protection of property. When the sh!t hits the fan they're not going to be their to protect you, trust me. They're job is to make sure we all stay in line and do what we're told, follow the "Law". They don't care what right or wrong is.
They made in example out of this guy when he did not comply. They acted with no forethought or imagination when it came to dealing with this guy. They only knew violence and force. They had all the power in that situation and they lost control. Ignorant, lazy and cowardly.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 21, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
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STEEVEE
You don't know sh!t about cops.
You just talking out your ass.
Become a cop for a few years and then come back and talk.
Right now you're just another typical stupid idiot running his mouth about cops.
Licking the jar from the outside will never give you the inside ......
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Feb 21, 2014 - 10:39pm PT
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If a suspect puts innocent folks in danger chances are law enforcement will respond. If an officer's life is in danger they can and will use lethal force.
The rest is just, like, your opinion man.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
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The police don't have many alternatives in that situation.
-Not doing anything and letting the guy go on his merry way was not an option (he was clearly a threat to the public)
-Taser didn't work
-Pepper spray didn't work
-Baton didn't work
-given that the taser, pepper spray, and baton didn't stop him, no officer (or sane person) would think going hands-on and grappling with/punching the guy would be a good idea.
Maybe they could have evacuated all the citizens from the area, set up a perimeter around the guy, roadblocks, and waited him out, but he forced their hand before any of that was remotely possible by going in the car.
So what am I missing? what other alternative did the police have?
I'm not saying it isn't a bummer, society may have failed that guy somewhere, but it wasn't at the end. What was he doing out on the streets anyway in such a condition? Where was his family before the incident? This guy being out on the streets was a real risk to the guy, the police, and the general public.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 21, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
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Too bad this happened in the desert, cause a fire hose would have done the job.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Feb 21, 2014 - 11:51pm PT
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Licking the jar from the outside will never give you the inside ......
Classic Werner!
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STEEVEE
Social climber
HUMBOLDT, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
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The story I read stated that he was wandering down the road and waving down bicyclist. I did not read that he was a danger to anyone or threatening anyone. The police had the option to monitor the situation, redirect traffic, and leave him alone. They chose to engage him with force. they left cars doors open, they looked unorganized and panicked. That's what I saw on the video. Maybe you guys saw something else.
I respect we live within a system that requires police and I do follow the law. But the bottom line is that the system is rigged and police are the arms and muscles of that system. They are exploited.
It's unfortunate that some people choose to become police for idyllic reasons and in the end are corrupted by the "Law", other cops, criminals and the frustrations of working within a system which restricts their ability to be true public safety officer that serve and protect fellow citizens. In the end this "brotherhood of blue" are servants to the power elite.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Feb 21, 2014 - 11:58pm PT
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Shooting people because you "feel threatened" is f#CK!NG STUPIDITY!! Take the risk and maybe die, or get a F-ing desk job. Cops should try a really dangerous line of work, before becoming lifer's in an insulated and exclusive career society.
Well, It goes with the territory. It is a mentality.
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