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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Feb 20, 2014 - 03:26am PT
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Seems entering a Highway Patrol car equipped with a
loaded AR gets you shot.
The suspect should have been apprehended soon after
the pepper spray incapacitated him.
Interest turn of events, it seems the situation was
allowed to escalate, and the suspect
failed to heed the officer's command.
Didn't need killing though.
But..
Center-mass is the way in Vegas.
The police will kill, IF they feel threatened.
Define that for me in legal terms please.
Redneck justice?
Maybe
Bad situation for all involved.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Feb 20, 2014 - 08:12am PT
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Did the Leos plant a bag of popcorn on him to cover their asses"..?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Feb 20, 2014 - 08:40am PT
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speelyei
Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
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Feb 20, 2014 - 09:18am PT
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As usual, there isn't enough detail to form an opinion.
Why did someone (a cyclist) feel compelled to call 911?
How many people called?
What did the BLM rangers see when they contacted the guy?
Did the guy have a warrant, or extensive criminal history?
Why did the guy fail to comply with instructions?
The question "why did they not cuff him?" is presented as a failure on the rangers part. It's a good question... Maybe they couldn't? Maybe there was some other reason?
Then another cop from a different outfit shows up, and he doesn't get the guy cuffed?
Now you have someone who has alarmed the public, resisted arrest, assaulted (attempted maybe) multiple officers, and has now gotten in the cop mobile...
And what's in there? Cop stuff... Radio, rifle or shotgun, a marked vehicle that the public recognizes as authority (or at least an agency they want nothing to do with)..
Has the situation escalated from the initial call? I'd say yes...
The play-by-play from the guys sitting in their car is not valid commentary. They are not experts, they are not clairvoyant. The comments of the truck driver who said the cops couldn't get the guy in cuffs were almost a footnote...
I'm not condemning the guy or apologizing for the cops. My issue is with articles like this, which seem to be commonplace these days. They have little fact, lots of opinion, and present speculation as truth. Bad situation, worse reporting.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Feb 20, 2014 - 09:25am PT
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Well here is one trufitude, the guy is DEAD.
And not from "natural" causes.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Feb 20, 2014 - 10:54am PT
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If the victim was mentally ill, then this is a very sad outcome.
If the victim was just an ass, then that's one less as#@&%e for the rest of us to deal with.
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all in jim
climber
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Feb 20, 2014 - 11:47am PT
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I thought the goal was to protect and to serve?
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Feb 20, 2014 - 11:50am PT
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A rap route for Crimson Crysalis probably could have prevented this.
Sad all the way around.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
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Have friends in LE here in Vegas and word is the dude was hopped up on something fierce, PCP perhaps, was tased and pepper sprayed and impervious to it...hence why the two BLM LEO's couldn't wrangle the guy.
Yes, and if your friends in law enforcement say that, it must be true, because cops never lie to protect themselves/each other. (voice oozing with sarcasm)
Protect and serve? Here in Boulder the cops mostly forgot that a long time ago.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
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You left this part out, wbw...
'Could it have been handled better? Most likely. But in the end these guys have one goal every day - to go home and see their families.'
Can't blame 'em for that. (Though many here usually would, regardless of the facts.)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
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I don't know WML. I have a couple of cop friends, but I have personal experience with Clark County LEOs that allowed me to WIN (not settle) a lawsuit against them for criminal behavior that not one of them was personally held accountable for in terms of actual charges.
It is a double standard that, in the end, does more harm than good.
Going home to their families is a nice Norman Rockwell cliche, but to protect and serve SHOULD be expected.
Not enough info to judge, but it sounds like they should have ganged up and mixed it up with him instead of relying on stand off toys.
How sad, the side of the road with a rolling suitcase, pack and bedroll.
And why is it always "PCP"?
Sheesh, of all people CLIMBERS should know how powerful a drug adrenaline is.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:19pm PT
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The cops looked like a bunch of pussies getting pushed around, had to resort to their guns. However, I can't say I'm really opposed to the shooting. You don't f*#k with armed officers - kind of 101.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Feb 20, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
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I don't know what happened in this story -didn't look at he article and don't care to.
Maybe the future will be a better place, using robotic officers. PCP Speedy may be able to fend off 2 humans - or more - but I bet he wouldn't get very far with a robot that can sprout a net from the top of his bot head that then tightens down to encase the perp and himself in a nylon chrysallis until they can haul the catch down to a precinct.
I know it is easy to point to what seems to be a growing number of police quick at the draw but 20 years ago, we didn't have people fried on drugs that make them superman strong and impervious to rational thouhgts, nor the over-medication with drugs that can cause people to have suicidal/violent thoughts as a side effect(YES, listen to the ads on TV touting this sh#t - f*#king SIDE EFFECTS like this and they are pushing he drugs to people who until then probably hadn't thought they had a problem!)
I've only known a few cops in my life, but those ones I met have been decent human beings.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Feb 20, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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" 20 years ago, we didn't have people fried on drugs that make them superman strong and impervious to rational thouhgts.."
Yes we did. The PCP cliche is from at least 20 years ago.
One difference today is that police killings get more press, and are more likely to get filmed, as with Rodney King.
However, like the Rodney King case, the failure to subdue led to the escalation.
Another difference today might be that stories of suicidal killers have received huge press, sometimes encouraging more potential mass murderers, but also encouraging the "Securitization" industy, which includes cops, prisons, Border Patrol, NSA, etc.
another police killing
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2562476/Woman-calls-justice-police-beat-husband-death-daughter-movie-theater-row.html
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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Feb 20, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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I don't like people who want to become LEOs, bill collectors, repossession people, prison guards, and the like. Just not my kind of people. I'm generally on the side of the people saying the cops did another bad shoot and handled another situation terribly. And, that will be the same here. haha
However, the characters that made the video and commented along with it... those guys I don't agree with. Especially the redneck justice part. IMO, those cops did not want to hurt that guy at all. IMO, those cops are tortured souls right now going over what they could have done to take the guy down. Their egos are tortured at the very least. IMO, one strong guy was just too much for the three of them. Bad training and standing around hoping for the best is what got them. They just weren't ready for this guy, IMO. They'll be thinking about that for a long time, I think.
You know... even Batman was taken down by a simple net. A simple net is used easily to subdue the scariest of all animals, an angry housecat. haha Why taser and pepperspray and beat with a baton? If you don't have two or more officers handy you could make a gun that shot the net out over the subject. Hold on... let me google this before I post to find out if it is a bad idea...
Well... there you go... some smarter guys than the LEOs in that video are already using one:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1997-10-02/news/1997275131_1_west-baltimore-police-knife
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ncrockclimber
climber
The Desert Oven
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Feb 20, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
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F*#k you fatty. You were an LEO like a janitor at NASA is astronaut. This site forum has enough issues without a delusional and inflammatory asshat like you being in the mix. The sooner you get shown to the door again, the better this place will be!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 20, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
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Feb 20, 2014 - 10:58am PT
" 20 years ago, we didn't have people fried on drugs that make them superman strong and impervious to rational thouhgts [sic].."
Yes we did. The PCP cliche is from at least 20 years ago.
Amen! PCP (aka Angel Dust) has been around a lot longer than that, and what it does to a person seems impossible to those who have never experienced it. The amount of force needed to subdue a dusted suspect makes the killing of Rasputin seem like the most minimal of force. If a suspect is dusted, good luck getting the suspect cuffed.
Yes, cops make mistakes. Anyone involved with law or law enforcement knows that. The knee-jerk reaction of some, however, that all cops are wrong, and are possessed with superhuman abilities to determine in a split second when deadly force is needed, strikes me as even more unrealistic than those who say law enforcement is always right. As several have mentioned, neither the film nor the article provide sufficient information for those not directly involved to make an intelligent decision. All we know for sure is that, as Philo said, someone died but not from natural causes.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 20, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
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You're correct, DMT. My bias is that all cops are right is closer to the truth than all cops are wrong. My bias is also that both propositions are unrealistic.
John
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